Oh so baity!
You can remove “western democracy” there I guess.
Also nah, I can speak out against my boss, my eventual landlord and protest in the streets, because I live in France, a western democracy.
YMMW.
I bet OP hasn’t actually done any of the things they listed. Reads like an edgy teenager.
Well surely they haven’t under threat of all things listed
Where the hell do they live that the threat actually exists though?
The French are smart enough to burn cars and loot when their government tries to pull some bullshit. I wish Germans were that smart.
And yet most of the political forces in France are advocating to remove all these rights. Sindicalists are arrested under terrorist laws, as are eco-activists. And maires trying to enforce price ceiling for lawns in cities are considered like Staline.
Sure and that is bad.
What does it have to do with the discussion though? Or is it “west bad” whatever happens?
So as long as the litteral nazis are not in charge genociding people it’s fine and there’s nothing to worry about? Syndicalistes and ecoactivists being arrested for terrorism is fine already?
So “west bad” it is then.
I mean if the above things are what defines the west then yeah. But I don’t think they do, or at least they don’t have to - I believe we stand for better things than that - for liberty, for democracy and welfare of all and I believe in progress, not complacency and decay thinly veiled by whataboutism.
EDIT: The user above clearly manipulated vote counts. All his comments get an extra 8-12 upvotes, everything that disagrees with him has an extra 8-12 downvotes. Blocked and reported.
And I can do all this in America. Mind you I work somewhere that struggles to keep people and more selective jobs do pull this shit, same with my landlord. And yeah protesting does often go that way if you’re left wing
Doesn’t matter whether you consider the US a western democracy, they consider themselves one and what OOP says is that that can’t possibly be right for the reasons following. It seems you are in agreement after all.
The US wasn’t even mentioned in the post, implying this as generic problems which is not the case.
eventual landlord
So you’re a child? Lol good luck speaking out against a landlord, don’t you know it’s like a job interview nowadays with references from past landlords and all?
That is completely dependent on country and who you try to rent from. In Norway the most I ever had to do is consent to an automatic check to prove I don’t have any reports of not paying bills.
You ever rent from a private landlord, instead of letting agency?
I’m Finnish, and what you say has been true for me — aside from when my credit got fucked (due to some semiauthoritarian bullshit), when I had to rent from a private landlord.
That was more or less exactly how the earlier commenter describes it; an interview. Luckily I was just over 20 and out of the army as an NCO, so the old couple were really into that and gave me the apartment.
I also used to believe our cops weren’t that bad. Until I was detained and saw how they act behind closed doors.
I’ve only rented from companies as it’s generally safer and you know that they will (most likely) follow the law.
You never know what you get when you rent from people, their professionality and knowledge of the various laws are highly variable. You could get lucky, and you could get very unlucky.
I own my appartement but I have rented over 20 different ones before that.
No need to namecall just because you don’t understand 😊
Oh ok so you haven’t rented in the current market. So actually it’s you who doesn’t understand eh?
Idk what you meant in that case by “eventual landlord”, maybe try actually making sense first and then maybe you won’t get name-called as much. 😊
From what I can tell, France still has essentially no-fault evictions and nowhere near sufficient renter protections, while there is a housing crisis going on. It’s not anywhere near as bad as the UK, but given the regulations as I can see them, I wouldn’t risk speaking out against the landlord in any capacity there either. This doesn’t even touch the fact that France is also fairly centralised, in that job opportunities are richer closer to the city and the bigger the city, and Paris is even worse for living expenses overall than London.
That is totally right. I’m french. Laws protect renters, but not that much, and landlords don’t hesitate to threaten with false pretense. And if you mention anything illegal they’re doing, you simply won’t have the apartment. They ask documents they have no right to see, but if you don’t provide them they won’t even look at your application. Obviously people of colour do have a harder time finding an apartment, but even for engineers it’s hard to find one in a city.
Literally who is downvoting you? Are there landlords on fucking solarpunk memes?
In the US, maybe. But that’s considered a flawed democracy and getting worse all the time. Only 8% of the nations on earth are full democracies, a number that continues to fall because of the pessimism and stupidity promulgated by authoritarian regimes.
Germany on “full democracy” at the same time it bans symbols of Palestinian support and uses the state’s violence to contain such manifestations.
Germany bans stuff al the time. It’s a consequence of our history and the historic leniency towards extremist edges. Your example is debatable in it’s execution, the general thought however is not.
Nobody’s perfect, and if you’re in Germany you should reach out to your politicians about it.
Protesting IS exactly that. Keep licking that boot.
I didn’t say not to protest.
In fact protesting is incredibly useful when the calls of many go unheard or ignored.
And having an effective protest is only possible if you can get a lot of people together, so it’s best to not shit on people from hello for saying exactly what you think is the “right” thing.
Not to mention having a large community of people reaching out before having to protest is also helpful, so doing good community building is also important.
I’d like to know your sources, because to my knowledge there is no such ban in Germany.
Are you implying that this hasn’t also happened recently in the US?
Are you implying two things can’t both be wrong?
??? I am allowed to fly the Palestinian flag, attend the marches, and say the chants whenever I want. The only thing we really cannot do in America is disrupt college campuses while classes are in session and riot. The three things I listed earlier are completely banned in Germany.
It was pro-Israel protesters that rioted and pro-Palestine/anti-genocide protesters that paid the price.
Haha! Australia is a full democracy? What a joke!
Australia is America’s bitch. Even if our politicians gave a shit, they couldn’t do anything.
URUGUAY MENTIONED🇺🇾🇺🇾🇺🇾🇺🇾WHAT THE CRAP IS AN UNSTABLE COUNTRY
UK is a full democracy? That’s a fucking joke, literally all of this applies here. Including no-fault (read: spoke out against landlord or asked for repairs) evictions.
Finland is also a fucking joke.
Reminds me of the time that Madventures bros were in India, talking to a local policeman, and said “Finland is said to be the least corrupt nation in the world” and the Indian policeman laughed so heartily into his moustache I almost fell off my chair.
You can do all of the shit mentioned in the post without getting the consequences.
“Finland is said to be the least corrupt nation in the world” and the Indian policeman laughed so heartily into his moustache
Which country did the policeman think was less corrupt if we rank so low in his opinion?
Which country did the policeman think was less corrupt if we rank so low in his opinion?
Youre genuinely asking me what some person I saw on TV thinks? How would I know? Even Professor X would have trouble reading someone’s mind through TV.
The point is the blind faith in that there’s no corruption, which is kept up by corruption.
I too used to think you we have just the most wonderful country. Then I grew up. You wouldn’t believe half the shit I can tell you about corruption in Finland, but here’s something at least you’ll find challenging to refute, as there’s supreme court documents on it.
https://www.hs.fi/suomi/art-2000009654524.html
That article is about me. I have the original video to prove it. And that’s basically the mildest offence they did that day, and it only saw consequences because I actually had the video. The video and photos the cops had of everything magically vanished when I wanted them to be brought to court.
Youre genuinely asking me what some person I saw on TV thinks? How would I know? Even Professor X would have trouble reading someone’s mind through TV.
I’m pointing how silly it was of him to laugh about it.
The point is the blind faith in that there’s no corruption, which is kept up by corruption.
It’s least corrupted country. It’s a comparative to other countries, always has been. If someone misunderstands that to mean that there’s no corruption then that’s on them.
Now I know you’re a Russian shill. What an insane claim.
You reported him based on him stating an opinion. I ought to ban you for making me click a button.
Simply: the “report” button is not for this function. I am a lazy and malicious mod. Don’t make me do work.
Russian disinformation bots do express opinions I guess, so you have a point.
I did browse his profile to see what you were getting at, and I couldn’t find anything supporting this claim. If you have examples, great - I am open-minded and willing to change a stance. I’m not, however, doing a deep dive into a Lemmy user’s past history. I don’t like virtual fishing expeditions, and found this kind of ‘gotcha-ism’ is what made Reddit so toxic.
Further, even if this person is moderately pro-russian, as long as they aren’t actively condoning the invasion of Ukraine, or actually spreading propaganda, that’s ok in my book. People are welcome to their opinions, and there many, many, shades of grey.
I’ll save you time. I’m Finnish, an NCO in the army reserves. I’ll DM you my sotilaspassi if you want to, lol.
He just simply doesn’t like me, and hasn’t the werewithall to actually compose an argument of any type. If you look at his profile, you’ll see it’s filled with “now I know you’re an X troll” comments. His lack of imagination is — as the kids say — cringe.
I’m in no way pro-Russian. I actually had a point in my comment. Something I can back up with legally documented personal experiences. I think he just simps Finland and doesn’t actually know what goes around here, so he leaves those asinine oneliners.
Yeah. Must be.
Can’t be that you, an American, would be ignorant of what is going on in other countries. That would simply be unheard of. /s
Here’s some aftermath of my personal experience.
https://www.hs.fi/suomi/art-2000009654524.html
Obviously you’re gonna need to use a translator, as even though I can communicate in your language, you can’t do so in mine.
The only Russian shill spreading misinformation here is you, Ivan. Go back to Kamchatka.
Technically, it isn’t clear if the crown could take back the rights given by them to parlaiment to govern the UK, but currently all decisions are handled by parlaiment including budget allotted to royals who are actually a net possitive from tourism.
For any Tankies in here, Tourism is a thing where people come from far away to share their resources in order to experience food and culture. China unfortunately is such an oppressive and bleak place that nobody wants to go there unless they have to or if they’re doing so accidentally by not realizing what happened to Hong Kong.
China unfortunately is such an oppressive and bleak place that nobody wants to go there unless they have to or if they’re doing so accidentally by not realizing what happened to Hong Kong.
That’s counterfactual and undermines your argument, the amount of tourists from Japan, the US and EU alone is immense and I fear most of them know, but don’t give a shit about Hong Kong (though they really, really should).
My guess would be the crown can totally take those powers back, but then the monarchy would be quickly overthrown as their only accepted role these days is to look pretty, draw in tourism, and entertain foreign dignitaries.
Are these tankies in the room with us right now? Fuck the CCP, but we’re talking about the west right now, stop trying to divert attention.
all decisions are handled by parlaiment
Who is backed by the undemocratic FPTP system, extremely pro-establishment press owned by capitalists waging open class war and a literal house of “lords” who have direct and legal legislative influence, not even lobbying. Imagine if Elon musk could reject legislation. Yeah, democratic af.
It’s a ruse you fell for, nothing more.
who are actually a net possitive from tourism.
Myth. Many countries do not have geriatrics riding around on golden thrones amidst record food bank use while having far more tourism than the UK, and I mean western European nations, not typical global south tourist destinations.
A reminder that the report button is not for ‘waaah I don’t like what you said’.
Cracks knuckles idly
Oh look, it’s the Country the Map Maker Likes Index Map
deleted by creator
For the first 2 points: Don’t use “Western democracies”. This is a US problem. Canada has much stronger labour and home protections.
3rd point: Getting banned online is a “you” problem. Your government has nothing to do with why your shitty opinions get you banned or muted. The fact that you even have the ability to complain about your government online is a luxury many other governments don’t afford to their people.
4th point: Whining about cereal variety makes the entire argument hold less water. Who the fuck cares about brands of cereal. Buy your cereal or don’t, but shut the fuck up about it. This is an empty complaint about capitalism.
5th point: Fair enough.
I don’t directly mean you, OP. Unless you made the meme… In which case I do mean directly you.
I think cereal is brought in to demonstrate the absurdity of the situation, where something so basic as worker’s or renter’s rights are non-existent but somehow energy already has went into something so stupid as cereal, which indeed nobody cares about.
It’s more about how one of the big reasons America is supposed to be great is all the options you have. 40 brands of cereal is worth it all, is it not?
Not to mention the huge variety of great cheeses, wines, beers and deli meats you should be responsible and not waste your money on.
I’d have thought that the emphasis is on the 40 brands vs 3-4 companies. So the theme is partially the illusion of choice but mostly it underlines the inherent problems with current capitalism.
Increasingly your money is being funneled into fewer and fewer hands. While marketing/advertising maintain the illusion of diverse companies with individual character/ethos.
This combination is repeated in some form or other time and again.
I think it’s more because in American anti communist propaganda the ability to choose between different brands and varieties of products was often highlighted as one of the great strengths of capitalism. It is certainly a benefit of markets over poorly run centralized economies, but there’s everything from market socialism to centralized economies that place more emphasis on ensuring consumer satisfaction.
But yeah it’s often a thing that new socialists in America mock
First point is definetly a problem in other western democracies. In Sweden there is the “loyalty obligation”, which states that you have to – according to one of the centrist unions here – “put the interest of the company above your own”. It is a strong intrusion in your freedom of speech.
Which of the unions is that? Just so I know which one to avoid.
“Unionen”. I think they focus a lot on like engineers and bosses, and other upper middle class jobs.
I don’t think the union is really to blame there, “loyalty obligation”, lojalitetsplikt, is afaik a set of laws that really does what Unionen says about it. It’s not the union implementing it.
To be frank, I think its quite a refreshingly honest phrasing they are using. A more company-friendly way would be like “we all like to be teamplayers, and that is what the loyalty obligation is all about”, or something like that. Now it sounds like “you are the guy on the track in the trolly problem meme, get fucked”, and to some degree, fair play to you.
From what I could read during my morning fugue state, it seems to me that they’re warning you that the contract you signed when getting hired does not allow you to be disloyal to the company as long as you’re working for it. I could not find anything about it being an actual law, though I’ve been wrong before so it wouldn’t surprise me if I missed something.
Som anställd har du lojalitetsplikt gentemot arbetsgivaren – även under en uppsägningstid. Se upp så att du inte bryter mot LAS eller lagen om företagshemligheter.
Om du då är illojal, kan det betyda att du bryter mot LAS ( Lagen om anställningsskydd)
So it is a colloquial term for those aspects of LAS and lagen om företagshemligheter. Those quotes from Unionen again. There seems to be aspects (the application of this after your employment ends) also regulated in the collective bargening agreements, and those are not laws, that is true.
Sweden is a western democracy?
Sounds like that Swedish centrist union should pound sand
Ah yes, Sweden, the famously Western democracy in Northern Europe. The same Sweden that shares a border with Finland, who shares a border with Russia. Yes, very Western indeed!
That is absolutely not how the term Western works in a geopolitical context. Alaska almost borders Russia, so by your definition the US isn’t a Western country.
I figured I was misunderstanding some context. Thanks for clarifying.
This still seems to me to be a US-centric post, not something involving all Western democracies.
Everything in Europe west of the old Iron Curtain has been considered “The West”, the Nordic countries are absolutely among them. There have been close ties to the US and UK since WW2, Norway’s old prime minister is currently the NATO general secretary.
Maybe an interesting cultural curiosity, maybe not, but Riot Games had the same misconception as you and made an “EU Nordic and East” server for Scandinavians and Russians to play League of Legends together. The game got huge here, but almost all Scandinavians rejected the EUNE server and chose the “EU West” server instead. Nobody wanted to play with the Russians, including me.
This attitude extends beyond just this one game, but it’s a prime example. Western Europe is a largely English-speaking region, it’s why and how we can relate. Russians usually don’t, with some exceptions. Either you communicate in Russian or you don’t really communicate at all. We generally don’t talk with Russians and don’t relate to them.
Politically, in simple terms, we Northern Europeans often tend to want to pull the rest of the west farther left, but the border to Russia is a hard barrier we don’t want to cross, not for any period of their political history do we want to emulate them. They are bad. They’ve been bad for a very long time. I don’t know what’s wrong with them, but they’ve been thoroughly fucked up for way too long. Maybe the Ukrainians can give a better analysis of the Russian psyche and culture that causes all this shit, when they get done with the current torrent of it.
I agree with the fish that what you say is USA only isn’t.
Basically where economy (power) is dominated by the few such problems exist.But I would just like to add that I still cringed when you brought up Canada as the counterpoint to USA. Its not that I disagree with what you wanted to compare, its just that to me those two countries are such an extremely similar shade of late stage systems they seem the same unless in direct comparison.
Canada is very different from the US in many ways relevant to this post.
Canada doesn’t have “at will” work. Medicine is purchased by the government with immense buying power. Canada has anti-hate laws that supercede free speech, and still have the right to protest and assemble (which has basically been removed in the US). Women’s health is protected, and hopefully soon they will offer free hygiene products for women. Maternity/paternity leave is protected. No abortion bans here. Weed is legal, and harm reduction therapy is a common thing.
I could go on but i feel like you just wanted to cringe at people who don’t think the US is a proper “developed” country.
You are also wrong about the economy being controlled by a few. When there is actually only a few, like dictators, they come and take your entire crops for almost nothing, which is an unthinkable tax rate for democracies. You don’t get education, and you don’t get highways or drinking water. These things are offered to you because the government needs productive citizens to make money. It’s The rules for rulers. Democracies are complicated and full of corruption specifically because it takes many people to do anything, not a few.
Tl;dr It takes 2 seconds of research to see you are wrong on every point.
I think you have not understood me when I explicitly agreed with the point - twice in the same post.
What did you even “research” (and why/how was that new to you)?
Ok try not to trip over backpedaling there.
You said you cringed at comparing the US to Canada because it’s the same shade of grey. It’s not. That’s what we’re talking about, it doesn’t matter that you agree with the post in general.
I didn’t need to research, because I’m not an ignorant idiot who speaks about countries they know nothing about. You on the other hand, could have done some research before making shit up. There’s literally a 20 minute educational video in my link, watch it, that’s considered researching this information…
Even if not in direct comparison, they aren’t the same shade of grey at all. Canada is comparable to Europe, not the US. And yes they are all late stage capitalistic nations, congrats on that astute observation. It doesn’t mean you aren’t wrong
Side topic: I find it very interesting that mods will not act against toxic comments like these that obviously use ad hominem but will remove a lot of comments that are critical of ideas that the mods support simply for existing. Go figure.
No, no, the redditor has got a point, I am not disputing the fact that I’m an idiot at all.
(But yes about that you said. Then again I don’t know much about mod tools, like if there is word flagging, or even how many mods there are.)
Canada is comparable to Europe, not the US.
I didn’t need to research, because I’m not an ignorant idiot who speaks about countries they know nothing about.
:)
Unless by “Europe” you mean UK, which Im again going to bunch in with Canada and USA.
For the first 2 points: Don’t use “Western democracies”. This is a US problem. Canada has much stronger labour and home protections.
It’s a Capitalism problem, Canada suffers from much of the same issues. It isn’t as bad, but it is bad.
They complain about cereals because they’ve been fed so much CCP and USSR Propoganda that they think food variety is a bad thing. They’re not one of us.
The point is, all the different brands you see are owned by the same handful of megacorporations So you’re not getting actual choice, just the illusion of choice. You’re like a dog who gets excited when your owner feeds you dog food from his hand instead of the bowl, because you think it’s a treat.
I thought the meme was clear about that, but the average American reads at a third grade level, so I understand reading comprehension can be difficult for you.
Wait until they find out about non-American western countries
Except they tend to have higher union participation so it’s harder to fire you and more permissible to speak out about your boss.
Everyone knows that democracy is when you vote for President every four years, and Totalitarian Fascism is when you vote for your union contract every five years.
I do not understand why you used the word except here
Perhaps but it’s less permissible to speak out against the government.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
Guilty until proven innocent.
Nobody complains
if I speak out online I could be muted or banned
Do you have any idea what social platforms look like when this is not the case?
The random board on 4chan is a good indicator for how that would look like (very NSFW and depending on your location illegal content there)
Believe it or not, even 4chan has some standards. The 8 variants, on the other hand…
Hint: it starts with a number
A lot of these comments reek of boot polish…
Those fucking tankies.
Your instance, Lemmy.today, federates with Hexbear. We don’t. Not all criticism of capitalism is in the service of dictatorship.
Anarchists invented the term ‘tankie’ to describe authoritarian defenders of the USSR in our fight for survival against attack, imprisonment, and assassination by agents of the Bolshevik state. This is an anarchist meme, posted by an anarchist, on a Lemmy instance run by anarchists. You’re using the word wrong.
If you see authoritarianism whenever people criticize neoliberal government, the problem is you. Fix your brain rot.
If you think living in a non “western democracy” allows you to shit talk your boss or the government… I invite you to try.
I hope this won’t be banned for wishing death on someone.
What disgusts me most about conservative voters and capitalists is most of them are so ignorant to admit that capitalism requires balance by virtue. You cannot exist in an environment where everyone is free to have money and buy things with that money and there will always ben enough supply for demand without serious guardrails to ensure it. What MAGA stands for is the idea that capitalism should be highly regulated, highly balanced, and highly fair. These people believe that to their core. They just… don’t vote that way. They’re so arrogant, so propagandized, they’ll continue to vote for the people that wish to continue destabilizing the balance.
I pity conservative voters. They’ve been brainwashed by Fox News for decades if not their entire lives
What MAGA stands for is the idea that capitalism should be highly regulated, highly balanced, and highly fair.
Oh fuck right off, no they do not.
That’s market socialism you’re describing, and MAGA bigots definitely don’t stand for it, much less understanding that “capitalism” isn’t synonymous with “market economy”, much much less caring about actual economics, and more just getting to be in a group of likeminded bigots.
I agree, in that most MAGA don’t really believe in much of anything, if a belief must stand a rigorous showing of competence. However, America has been a country championing socialist policy for almost 100 years. Even those spouting Trumpian garbage believe in liberalism. They just have labels and made-up feelings provided to them by the capitalist overclass, convincing them to destroy themselves.
However, America has been a country championing socialist policy for almost 100 years.
Uh, what?
You have horrible social security and labour laws. If anyone has been “championing socialist policies”, it’s the Nordics, or if talking labour rights especially, France definitely more than the US.
The American anti-socialist rhetoric is so bad it has its own name. Even very moderate socialist policies are often disparaged as “communism”.
There’s so much libertarianism online now, mostly affected by said American rhetoric, that I’ve actually met an idiot here in Finland who genuinely argued that homelessness and unemployment is a conscious choice by anyone suffering either.
You sound a bit like Peter Thiel in this clip (played on John Oliver) where he is pretending Trump’s rhetoric has deeper meaning.
Since most aren’t gonna listen here’s the transcript:
Peter Thiel: I think a lot of the voters who vote for Trump, take Trump seriously, but not literally. And so when they hear things like the Muslim comment or the wall comment or things like that, It’s not, the question is not, you know, are you gonna build a wall like the Great Wall of China, or, you know, how exactly are you gonna enforce these tests? What they hear is, we’re gonna have, we’re gonna have a saner, more sensible immigration policy.
Cut back to John Oliver
Oliver: Oh, yeah, that is definitely the sense I got from watching those Trump rallies. Yes, while we are all furiously chanting, “build that wall”, we all understand in this context, wall is a clever use of metonymy, or a figure of speech in which 1 word, wall in this example, is used as a stand-in for a saner, more sensible immigration policy. Now, if you will, let’s unpack “Trump the bitch”.
You’ve never heard of Social Security? I personally think it’s important to highlight the fundamental pieces of government that already work using systems people could classify as “socialist”. You pay in. You get you cut. The government uses everyones money as leverage.
The context, is the current population is quite literally on the precipice of throwing out modern liberal democracy all together.
I agree, of course, there are many other components to being human in America that the government isn’t properly established to deal with. But people who already hate the idea of socialism, they should understand that America grew to what it is, what it was, in part because of those policies.
It’s also a much better story to wrap yourself in than WW2 dominance and trickle-down horse-shit, and the ever-constant reminder of failed reconstruction and native demolition. America came together once, in the darkness of the Depression, to build a foundation. The last several generations, even those that existed when these programs were established, have existed to destroy and steal and gut. But Reagan told us all it was the government’s fault, and in the golden hue of the 1980s, who the fuck needed Social Security? It was those same government programs that saved Americas cities, that built Americas roads. Many of the tracks may be gone, but they’ve all been replaced with internet cables — similarly a public enterprise.
America is not a socialist country, it’s constitution needs rewritten. But so much of what makes America what it is, what Americans understand America to be, is solely because of social liberalism. And all of these people that are voting Trump, they should understand that. Because Trump literally stands for demolishing all of it.
Ok yes. In the 1930s the United States came shockingly close to socialist revolution over the Great Depression and as such we won massive concessions that have been in the process of being eroded since the end of wwii, but especially since the 80s. Such a massive propaganda campaign combined with anti communist crackdowns happened that we basically surrendered social security and couldn’t implement universal healthcare
See this guy understands what I’m saying.
To say that America is “number 1” is not what I was saying, it was that at the heart of the American governmental systems lies a true socialist foundation. That’s why it’s been hammered for so long, because it’s what should have propelled America into the 21st century.
Like I’m often the defender of the American socialist tradition both on Lemmy and over in America, but I wouldn’t call it a foundation. We have deep socialist roots for sure, but they’re concessions and arguments. It’s the foundational conflict of our nation: a slave empire built on the idea that all men are created equal. It resulted in a breeding ground for anarchists and fascists.
Those concessions are important and they led to a lot of prosperity, but don’t forget that by the 50s we had McCarthy. We should’ve toppled it and showed the ussr what communism can be
You’ve never heard of Social Security?
Oh, you’ve never heard of the The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea? As you can see from the name, they’re definitely democratic.
The US social security is a bad joke compared to other developed nations.
To say “USA has been championing socialist policies for 100 years” is on the same level as saying “China has been championing personal freedom for 100 years”.
The US doesn’t even have direct presidential elections, which by the standard of developed democratic nations is extremely weird.
There’s a lot there I don’t need to comment on. I’m challenging you on your “America has been championing socialist policies for 100 years” comment.
Compared to European social security and labour laws, US socialist policies and labour laws are pretty much on the level of developing nations — if that.
Case in point; Among 41 countries, only U.S. lacks paid parental leave
Are you honestly trying to use public roads as an example of “having championed socialist policies”? Not exactly the most novel or progressive policy, I would say.
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver - Homelessness
https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/social-security-benefits-are-modest
Social Security benefits in the United States are lower than many other developed countries.
You have people who are employed full time, some even in two jobs, who still have to live and shit on the street.
“Championing socialist policies” lol
Literal strawman nonsense, look at this man go. I think you should understand that America is attempting to erode a woman’s right to vote. That’s what I’m saying. That all these people that think America should continue down the path of abandoning modern democracy should look into Americas past and understand the points in time in which it has championed for rights.
Thats the way you use that word. You’re literally admitting you’re ESL and can’t use English as well as I can. You’ve built a massive strawman on this simple fact. Other commentors can see my point. You can’t. Sorry.
Like I actually can’t believe you’ve built this massive of a strawman, it’s incredible. All because you don’t know the definition of a word. That’s literally all you go back to, as well. Nothing else I say matters. You just masturbate to your strawman, Mr Fin.
You don’t understand what a strawman argument is.
ESL? No, that’s “English as a second language”. Mine is technically third. My English is better than 60% native speakers (a large 60min test by a professional). And that counts countries which aren’t on the level of developing nations when it comes to literacy figures
America is attempting to erode a woman’s right to vote.
America has been championing socialist policies for 100 years.
So which one do you believe in this one?
It’s quite hilarious how often I end up teaching Americans English. While this is my third language, I’m fairly sure I’ve used it longer, more and in more academic contexts than you have. That’s why I don’t make up meanings for words when someone proves me wrong.
champion verb
vigorously support or defend the cause of.
“he championed the rights of the working class and the poor”
Once I answered your arse-ignorant “well when did your country” bullshit you got shaken and started shifting your asinine goalposts. The US has never CHAMPIONED socialist policies, let alone even using them. Still don’t.
It’s incredibly ironic how you think saying “you got the wrong definition” will work, and how “other commentors can see”. Yes, they can. They will be able to even check the definition (which I’ve linked btw, but you ofc haven’t, as your definition of the word is made up) and see that “champion” doesn’t exactly mean what you pretend it does. :)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/champion
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/champion
Even if you forgo the most used definitions, and try to find a niche one that’s even remotely similar to how you’re using it…? Nah. The closest ones still will have at least “enthusiastic” in them. The way you use it to say “America has been championing socialist policy for 100 years” is incorrect.
America has been actively suppressing socialist policies, socialist movements and even socialist countries. These are facts.
So I don’t know what “English” you’re using, but here in the real world “champion” doesn’t mean “actively fighting against”.
“Mr. Fin”
See you can’t even write Finn, which is the demonym for a Finnish person. You use the noun which means a literal fin. Like those things fish have. :D
“championing socialist policy”
If it wasn’t so worrying that people like you exist, it’d be kinda hilarious.
Yeah totally should do that in an autocratic country, lets go with Russia and lets see how long it would take before the original poster is on their way to a Siberian gulag
Hey, my house has a lot things that need repaired. I should probably bring up these issues with my family, and get to work on fixing them.
Oh, the house down the road is on fire? Guess I should be fine my house is only falling into disrepair.
Whataboutism isn’t necessary
Or in China, I’m sure they could at least say their concerns once before they’re social credit is shit and they get disappeared.
That’s the “in Africa kids are starving and you’re refusing to eat your broccoli” level of argument. Yes, it’s bad in Russia, but that doesn’t mean everything is perfect in their country. And that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t strive to make the situation better. Moreover, without any push back it can only get worse.
If that is the bar we have to pass humanity isn’t doing too well now is it? I myself would like to hold a modern country to even a little bit higher standards.
While I do see your point, I think the main idea behind this post is that we’re told that we live in civilized free western world, but once we rebel, speak ill or become in any way a ‘threat’ to people on top (while staying within the rules of society of course), that’s when you get punished for it.
Something I’ll give to autocratic countries is that even though you have no freedom, at least you’re fully aware of it. In western countries, you have some freedom but are led to believe you actually have more, if not full, freedom.
Except only the last point really has anything to do with the government. It’s freedom from government control, not freedom to do anything you want with no consequences.
Fuck borders, everyone deserves freedom, not just people on my side of a line on the map
And they can vote for a better future. Last UK election we got a labour victory but 8% fewer people voted. Thats crazy.
Of topic, i agree with that, country borders are what making people xenophobic
That’s the least this person deserves for that crime against readability.
Hmm, I’ve done all of these things and haven’t suffered the consequences you describe. Yes, in the US.
Yeah but if we don’t get mad at made up situations then we’ll be forced to deal with real issues and that’s hard.
Sure, but have you tried any of these while being black?
You bought forty types of breakfast?? I don’t think I’ve done that throughout my life.
Rage bait
Remember the sacred texts:
You all are making me work too hard, so I’m locking this dumpster fire and drinking my coffee.
Freedom of speech protects you from the government, who could otherwise publicly execute you for speaking out against them.
So just semi-public executions then :)
The ones lucky to get mentioned once in the 24h news cycle.Also “freedom of speech” should protect you from all.
Its just that the specific brand of “freedom of speech™” you are probably referring to is limited by your personal power.
Ie megacorps and the rich have freedom of speech bcs its costs them virtually nothing. But citizens don’t. Citizens get gag orders or sued to oblivion & ruined lives (regardless of the court outcome). I’d say that that is a very strong deterrent that in practice limits your meaningless theoretical rights.Also “freedom of speech” should protect you from all.
No. Absolutely not. This is why slander and libel exist.
Just like with gov - freedom of speech isn’t absolute (thats why treason laws exist & have the highest of punishments).
Everyone can have consequences.
But how the tools are set and effective to provide those freedoms equally is the real issue.Eg slander acoustics are used all the time for non-slander speech, just as a tool to limit that ones speech and even as a deterrent to others.
And I would say the wealthy disproportionately accuse of slander the not-so-wealthy.Thats why I mention gag orders & lives ruined just by the procedures/tools.
Not solar.
Not punk.
This is grade 8 social studies.
