The former Hawaii congresswoman delivered a full-throated call to vote for Trump—a man she had once tried to run against as a Democrat.
    • Vespair@lemm.ee
      29·
      3 个月前

      Hey now that’s not fair; Tulsi will sell herself to anyone willing to pay, not just exclusively Russia!

    • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
      8203·
      3 个月前

      You know, when you accuse every anti-war candidate of being a Russian agent, you’re just making Russia look better than the US.

      Why do the Democrats love war so much? Why can’t Democrats be anti-war?

      Edit: Reminder that Russia supports Palestinian statehood and has called for the partition of Jerusalem along pre-1967 borders. Has a Democrat ever said that?

      • katy ✨@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        654·
        3 个月前

        tulsi isn’t even CLOSE to being anti war…

        Reminder that Russia supports Palestinian statehood and has called for the partition of Jerusalem along pre-1967 borders

        shocker; russia likes something that divides a country so they can create a wedge /s

        • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
          371·
          3 个月前

          russia likes something that divides a country so they can create a wedge

          And here we see yet another Democrat opposing the partition of Jersualem, even though East Jersualem is almost entirely Arab.

          • x4740N@lemm.ee
            91·
            3 个月前

            Like russia hasn’t had stuff like the red scare terror

            • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
              28·
              3 个月前

              What do you mean? The Red Scare didn’t occur in Russia. The Red Scare was America being afraid of Communism in the '50s.

              • x4740N@lemm.ee
                41·
                3 个月前

                I know your a troll but I’m still going to let you know that I meant “red terror” and “scare” was some sort of typo

      • halcyoncmdr@lemmy.worldEnglish
        542·
        3 个月前

        You know, when you accuse every anti-war candidate of being a Russian agent, you’re just making Russia look better than the US.

        It’s not about a supposed “anti-war” stance at all, and you trying to shift the conversation to that just makes you look like you don’t want discussions about the fact Russia has been working to destabilize US politics for decades.

        You *do *realize Russian interference in US politics has been happening since way before any of this right? Way before even their invasion of Georgia 16 years ago. This isn’t new, and it isn’t about Ukraine or Israel. It’s about recognizing that Russia has been spreading misinformation in the US through things like social media and even our own politicians for decades now. The US military and intelligence communities have been warning about it for just as long, it isn’t new. The fact you want to make it seem like this is somehow new means you either haven’t been paying any attention, or that you support Russian interests.

        Given your attempt to shift the conversation away from Russian interference, I’d say the second is correct.

        • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
          41·
          3 个月前

          It’s not just the US. It’s “The West” as a whole.

          There’s good evidence that Russia was behind the pro-Brexit sentiment in the UK as well.

          https://www.csis.org/blogs/brexit-bits-bobs-and-blogs/did-russia-influence-brexit

          Supported by the top UK Google searches immediately following the vote:

          https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/06/24/480949383/britains-google-searches-for-what-is-the-eu-spike-after-brexit-vote

          “What is the EU?”

          “What is Brexit?”

          • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
            37·
            3 个月前

            There’s good evidence that Russia was behind the pro-Brexit sentiment in the UK as well.

            You mean that Russia supported pro-Brexit sentiment, right?

            You’re not saying Russia was the source of pro-Brexit sentiment, are you?

            • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
              41·
              3 个月前

              If they hadn’t supported it, it would not have gone anywhere as the Google searches showed the general public in the UK neither knew or cared what the EU or Brexit actually were.

                • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
                  51·
                  3 个月前

                  Read the report made by the British government, it absolutely is true that Russia, specifically Vladimir Putin, has been intent on destabilizing the west for decades now.

                  But it’s clear you don’t care about the truth, you care about pushing Russian talking points, so we’re done here.

        • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
          370·
          3 个月前

          Russia has been working to destabilize US politics for decades.

          Yeah, probably. Just like the USA tries to influence the population of foreign countries through efforts like Voice of America and Radio Free Asia.

          But I think you’re vastly overestimating how much effect Russian propaganda has. If anything is destabilizing democracy, it’s Fox News (which has a reach hundreds of times greater than any Russia bot on Twitter). How can you worry about foreign disinformation when domestic disinformation is right in front of you and radicalizing your parents (and weird cousins).

          The only reason we hear so much about Russian disinformation is because the Democrats need a boogeyman to blame their failures on. (Who haven’t the Democrats accused of being Russian agents at this point?)

            • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
              268·
              3 个月前

              Unfortunately this is why Russian propaganda works. Some people just aren’t all that bright and cannot grasp the game being played.

            • aidan@lemmy.worldM
              413·
              3 个月前

              A McDonalds employees named Bob tweeting something, and then Alice agreeing with it does not make Alice a McDonalds agent. It means she agreed with what Bob tweeted, even if he was being subversive/malicious

              • Socialist Mormon Satanist@lemmy.world
                28·
                3 个月前

                Well, here on Lemmy, unless you agree with every single thing the majority here agrees with, you’re a russian asset. I’m accused of it daily! lmao

                • Carrolade@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  11·
                  3 个月前

                  No, it’s not really required to agree with every single thing the majority agrees with. You will get the accusation if you push the same things the Russians push though, which is not that hard to check. And they have definitely pushed for Jill Stein before, quite a bit.

                  Now, I personally just think he’s an old school troll with a particular agenda, but that’s just me. lmao

            • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
              314·
              3 个月前

              These aren’t separate phenomena you dipshit.

              You know, insulting me doesn’t make your argument more persuasive.

              I haven’t insulted you or anyone in this thread. But I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve been insulted. Why are you all being abusive?

              Do you think your behaviour is any better than the MAGA people?

                • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
                  314·
                  3 个月前

                  Wow. How do you write out all of that about the importance of not giving way to even the slightest bit of fascism and then defend a president who is FUNDING A GENOCIDE.

                  The “shitty crustpunk bar” is called the Democrat party and it’s already been taken over by genociders and you are perfectly fine with still drinking there.

              • TheHiddenCatboy@lemmy.worldEnglish
                62·
                3 个月前

                Because your concerns are meaningless and without merit, and repetitive, we’ve decided we’ve had enough of you and are calling you out on your bullshit. We’re also keying on your sea-lioning tendencies, and just refusing to play your stupid game politely.

                We’d like not to play your stupid game at all, but we know how this works. You peel off someone who isn’t paying attention, getting them to vote third party or stay home on false accusations that Democrats are Russophobic, making it more likely that the Shitgibbon can steal the Election in November. Thus we have to address your bullshit and make it clear that Gabbard, Stein, and Trump DO have pro-Russian policies at a minimum, if not full on Russian ties, and that we’re not red-scaring here, but pointing out that an honest to goodness Russian Autocracy lead by a Strong-Man Dictator every bit as bad as what Trump wants to be here, is pulling strings behind the scenes and inflaming already existing (and in the case of Anti-Vax, outright made up ‘Moon Landing Faked/Earth is Flat’ levels of bullshit fake) divisions in the country to ensure the Autocrat Trump gets into office and tears down civil rights like Putin is doing in Russia.

                And I think the entire … what does Lemmy call their equivalent of a subreddit anyway … community is doing a good job of exposing your bullshit.

                • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
                  38·
                  3 个月前

                  So you’re calling me a sealion because, after dozens of messages insulting me, I pointed out that I didn’t deserve to be thus abused.

                  And you think my politeness is some kind of manipulation instead of, oh I dunno, maybe I just don’t think getting angry helps improve the quality of discourse on the internet, and also I’m mindful of the fact that this sub has rules on civility (which no one else seems to be following, but which I’m aware could get me banned by a mod if they were looking for an excuse, as often happened on reddit).

                  What is wrong with you? It hasn’t even crossed your mind for a second that I might be a real person expressing my real thoughts, has it?

      • aesthelete@lemmy.world
        471·
        3 个月前

        Reminder that Russia supports

        invading its neighbors, so it’s obviously very anti-war 🙄

      • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
        412·
        3 个月前

        Russia supports Palestine because Israel is an ally of the US. If tomorrow the US decided to end it’s alliance with Israel and become allies with Palestine, Russia would suddenly become against Palestine and seek to form an alliance with Israel.

        There are few morals in geopolitics and there are no friends, only interests.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
          1·
          3 个月前

          There are few morals in geopolitics and there are no friends, only interests.

          It’s funny how everyone was so excited about this rule in those years before 1939. Then for a short time some people experimentally realized that maybe some morals would be fine.

          No, no politician ever believed that, but I’m confident that the reason we are only going into similar shit now is that before that there was a kind of common irrational memory, popular pressure for some morals to be followed.

          The population of the western countries (except Germany, which till 80s was, eh, what it was) was rather interested in morals, anti-fascist and anti-colonial, and also (including even Germany) wanted peace on earth and goodwill towards men.

          There’s another rule - people so excited about backstabbing and intrigue can’t honestly face their enemies, which means they can’t honestly face themselves which is harder. They are weak. They are good at collectively making it appear that they are strong, but earlier or later the truth becomes clearly visible.

          Everything changes, morals (not those about sexual life and religion and even honesty, but those about strength and dignity and friendship) don’t, since not even Marcus Aurelius, but since Gilgamesh epic. That’s because they are an evolutionary advantage. Nothing that isn’t can perpetuate itself into future, and many generations have changed since then, but we still have those notions.

          • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
            11·
            3 个月前

            What kind of regime was Hamas again? It wasn’t a democratic society. In fact their whole ideology centers around restoring ethnic makeup of the region to how it was in the past by the use of violence.

            These were the kinds of ideas that were popular in 1939. Look at the photos of German cities in 1945. Now look again at the images you’re seeing in the place that was ruled by Hamas. Same ideology, same end result.

            You may have been made to believe that removing people who were born in certain place in the world should be removed by force because they’re not of the same ethnicity of the people who lived there in the past. That may feel like justice, but it seems more like revenge. And when we’re talking about a different generation of people wanting revenge for some perceived wrongdoing by someone’s ancestors… well we’ve seen this kind of thing before.

            Palestinians have a problem hatred. You may feel like that hatred is justified, but it makes no difference. Hatred lead to people choosing poor leaders because it’s an emotion that can be easily manipulated by the corrupt. This current iteration of the conflict was initiated by Hamas to make Palestinians to hate so they won’t think too hard about why their leaders are billionaires with palaces in Qatar.

            The weird thing about the politics of hatred is that no matter how many times we see how self-destructive it is, people will continue to think that it makes them strong. But it ends with the same destruction.

            Once Israel gets their people back and the current iteration of violence wanes, will the next generation of Palestinians be raised to hate Israelis? If that’s the case we’re going to see the same kind of conflict happen again in a decade or two with similar results. Germans managed to realize that it was their hatred that was the root cause of the destruction of their country. But with all of the external support Palestinian hatred receives, I’m not all that optimistic about Palestinians being able to do the same. At least not for a few more generations.

            • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
              2·
              3 个月前

              I’m not going to read this bullshit attentively because the problem is Israel and theft remains theft after many generations.

              The state of Israel is built upon “restoring ethnic makeup” of something not 100, but 2000 years ago. If they don’t like this logic, they should abolish it first and surrender.

              Palestinians don’t have a problem with hatred. It’s clueless people like me who misunderstood how disgusting Israel is who thought before that they have a problem with hatred.

              Germans managed to realize that it was their hatred that was the root cause of the destruction of their country.

              And Israelis will too. Same ideology, same end result. They might think they are smarter.

        • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
          466·
          3 个月前

          This is you trying to deflect from the atrocities of US and Israel by reasoning that every other country is just as amoral.

          Whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep at night. God bless America. Greatest nation on Earth. USA. USA.

          • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
            31·
            3 个月前

            You should look into the atrocities committed by Russia, if you like hearing about atrocities. Then you could look into some of the things Hamas has done.

            How do you go about choosing which atrocities you care about and which ones you look the other way about? Is it based on the ethnicity of the perpetrators or the ethnicity of the victims? Or is it the atrocities that are committed against people in countries that are aligned with the US you look the other way on?

            Just want to figure out method to your selective empathy.

        • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
          352·
          3 个月前

          They also say that about Jill Stein, and Tucker Carlson, and even Trump himself.

          Do you honestly think it’s possible that Russians could have taken over every aspect of American government, politics, and media except the valiant Democrats (because the Democrats are so noble and pure of heart and unable to be blackmailed).

          If the Russians really could infiltrate America that thoroughly, then it would be all over already because they’d have the Democrats too.

          But it’s just a Democrat scare tactic to get you riled up.

          • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
            26·
            3 个月前

            When she was A Democratic Congressional Representative her top donors were Kremlin-linked interests.

            When the intelligence agencies were saying a candidate in the 2020 Democratic primary was a Russian agent they were talking about Tulsi Gabbard. Members of both parties were calling her a traitor. It wasn’t until she started working with the Republicans that they stopped criticizing her treason.

            She tried suing Clinton over saying she was a Russian agent, but she lost because truth is an absolute defense against defamation.

            She’s literally dined with Putin and General Flynn, who was found guilty of colluding with Russia but was pardoned by Trump.

            She’s a traitor and should be imprisoned.

          • Passerby6497@lemmy.worldEnglish
            231·
            3 个月前

            They also say that about Jill Stein, and Tucker Carlson, and even Trump himself.

            I know you’re trolling, but it’s hilarious you just posted a list of people with credible ties to Russian influence as your response to someone not having ties with Russia.

            I love how hard you trolls have to flounder for your rubles.

          • TheHiddenCatboy@lemmy.worldEnglish
            82·
            3 个月前

            In all this bullshit, there is one kernel of truth I want to address.

            Russia hasn’t created anything in the shitstorm they’re inflaming. This bullshit we’re dealing with with all our divisions is home-grown and home-made. If you believe that all our problems are Russian, you’re just setting yourself up with some home-grown xenophobia while you ignore the real problem. And Russia just falling into a sinkhole one day won’t solve the massive number of problems that America has, the same problems that Adolf Hitler schemed to exploit in World War 2.

            But what is not gotten here is that Russia HAS exploited these problems, just like Hitler did in World War 2. Russia may not have ‘taken over every aspect of American government, politics, and media’, but they HAVE identified useful idiots and empowered them to disrupt our nation’s well of discourse.

            Jill Stein has literally been photographed sitting beside Putin, and she advocates for Pro-Russian positions like withdrawing our aid to Ukraine, while inflaming fake divisions like whether or not to vaccinate against diseases. Likewise with Tucker Carlson and Mr. “I’ll end the war in Ukraine on day one” Trump. We’re not keen on surrendering a nation to an authoritarian dictator like Putin, so he can go oppress gays and transgendered people over there. A Trump win here would definitely enable that, not to mention a very Russian-like playbook of capturing the government’s Civil Service to staff with sycophants, a Unitary Executive that has absolute power without checks and balances from the other branches of government, the total evisceration of the Minority Party’s power (and the relegation of the Dems to that minority status – Permanent Republican Majority, which preceded Trump as a Republican goal), and the codification of oppression of Gays, non-Christians, non-Whites, and women. Dems may be using scare tactics around these truths, but they are truths, and sometimes you just gotta call a spade a spade.

            Now, why might we call people like this a Russian troll? Well, let’s stop and think for a moment. Trump is Russia’s favourite candidate, end of line. He’ll put pressure on Ukraine to play ball with giving up the disputed territories, and he’d definitely stop the flow of guns, missiles, bombs, tanks, and planes to Ukraine. While the EU may step up, 1) Russia has plans for the EU, and 2), the EU can’t hope to replace what the biggest spender in military can afford to contribute. Getting the US out of Ukraine’s side will improve Russia’s odds and serve their purpose. We know that Russia is hiring trolls to influence Western thinking – we have empirical evidence of this! It’s part of a massive Russian (and Chinese, and Iranian) cyber plan. We’ve even seen their hardware – massive banks of smartphones hooked up to a central computer run by an operator to post inflaming and discouraging comments.

            Now, imagine a comment coming in having ‘concerns’ about how every post that defends Russian assets is ‘Dems falling for scare-mongering’, despite the clear evidence that Gabbard has been under Russia’s thumb, defending Stein’s own Russian connections, and claiming Trump of all people was not under his authoritarian buddy’s thumb contrary to EVERYTHING we’ve seen these past 8+ years? I see the concern, pal, and see it for exactly what it is: a problem that exists only in certain stupid little heads, and I call them out on it.

            People, this guy isn’t here to honestly debate us. Keep up the good work calling his bullshit out, though!

            Edited: To remove reference to an individual poster.

            • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
              112·
              3 个月前

              People, this guy isn’t here to honestly debate us. Keep up the good work calling his bullshit out, though!

              You know, I used to do quite a lot of volunteer organizing work for the Democrats when I was younger. I was even on the Christmas card list of a federal senator. (I mean, it’s not a big deal, but I valued it. I held onto those cards until last year.) I spent years of my life on that.

              Boy do I regret that now.

          • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
            240·
            3 个月前

            This is the Democrat’s equivalent of Obama is a secret Muslim.

            The whole country has been watching too much Manchurian Candidate.

            • jj4211@lemmy.world
              8·
              3 个月前

              There are plenty of ass hats who are not seemingly tied to Russia. However Gabbard seems concretely tied to Russia, and Carlson explicitly went over there to help with Russian state propaganda. Trump has been heavily influenced by Russian manipulations, though I’m not sure if he’s knowingly “on the take” or just super susceptible to being manipulated.

              Haven’t heard about Jill Stein, but hardly paid attention since she doesnt influence anything at all. I did look at her platform and saw the “just have Ukraine surrender to Russia” and thought that was super weird, but I chalked it up to being just terribly naive rather than assuming Russian influence.

              • TheHiddenCatboy@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                3 个月前

                Here’s a Newsweek article about her Russian ties, including her having a meeting with Putin and Flynn and being photographed doing so. I get the calls to be careful about seeing Russians everywhere and not recognising that the asshattery is inside the house and not just looking out from within, but seriously, when someone is clearly working with the Autocrats in Russia, we should call that shit out.

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
        26·
        3 个月前

        Tulsi Gabbard isn’t anti-war. She explicitly called herself a hawk on the War on Terror. She’s a right-wing opportunist, and like other right wing opportunists (Tucker Carlson, for instance) she might occasionally have a broken clock moment where she criticizes a war, but it’s only because she wants to pivot to starting other wars elsewhere.

        Tulsi is also a Zionist. She voted for a ban on BDS and called the protests antisemitic. In fact, she said that they were “puppets” of a “radical islamist organization” and, “I’m concerned about it because leaders in the West are not combating it. … Unfortunately, President Biden seems to be afraid to be called an Islamophobe.” This is similar to her criticisms of Obama for being insufficiently hawkish (in her view) on the War on Terror.

        Don’t fall for right-wing grifters trying to take advantage of anti-war sentiment to push their agenda.

        • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
          48·
          3 个月前

          She voted for a ban on BDS and called the protests antisemitic. In fact, she said that they were “puppets” of a “radical islamist organization” and, “I’m concerned about it because leaders in the West are not combating it. … Unfortunately, President Biden seems to be afraid to be called an Islamophobe.”

          Oh, I didn’t know that. That’s disappointing.

          (Not much different from any other US politician, though.)

      • LeadersAtWork@lemmy.world
        191·
        3 个月前

        Don’t bother with this one, folks. I recognize the name and that should tell you enough.

        Move along now.

        Move along.

          • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
            127·
            3 个月前

            I almost admire their tenacity.

            I guess I want to be 100% sure that Democrats are a lost cause before I give up on them.

            I stupidly keep hoping Democrats will be rational enough to yield to facts. (Democrats are always saying that they’re the rational side of politics in this country.) But I’m realizing Democrats have become nothing more than BlueMAGA.

            • LeadersAtWork@lemmy.world
              14·
              3 个月前

              Homerian, I’ve been rather patient. We both deserve some level of respect, if only as fellow human beings. So when I ask people to move along it’s because I don’t feel you’ll have your mind or opinions changed by words on an online forum, largely due to how you don’t typically listen rationally.

              Among other reasons, most of us who lean Left recognize that there are commonalities and where comparisons can be made between the radicalization of the Right, and some of the more radical positions those on the Left can take. We also know not every position taken on any side is inherently good or bad. For the most part we make judgment calls, which is why there are so many groups with even small differences in opinion not-on-the-Right and why we bicker. It’s a weakness we have as a larger community.

              However, we are NOT MAGA. We do not subscribe willfully to a cult without first being tricked, nor do we go out of our way to cause harm. If Harris or Walz or Obama or fucking Abraham Lincoln came back and began yelling about how they will become King and suppress minorities, etc, we would absolutely turn against them. We follow those we follow because right now there aren’t many choices, something we intend to change. We see that this is a step in the right direction, and a big one at that. Despite our honestly very valid hatred of Trump and the modern GOP, we want what’s best for everyone in this country, including those on the Right. This is why we challenge you constantly. Because you’re someone that wants to speak out and we strongly feel that despite your arguments you are not making strong cases, and certainly appear to be working against this greater good we are attempting to establish.

              I wouldn’t have spent this time if I don’t feel strongly that Harris-Walz is the right direction. Nor would I stand so often if there wasn’t something very real to lose. I just wish you, and others like you who don’t speak up, would understand that. Y’know?

              • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
                112·
                3 个月前

                However, we are NOT MAGA […] we want what’s best for everyone in this country, including those on the Right.

                Are you sure? Because, by the way, people in this thread have called me dipship, shithead, idiot, moron, puppet, troll, and told me to fuck off multiple times, invariably with a slew of upvotes.

                And why? Because I said I don’t think Gabbard is a Russian asset? They’re making excuses for supporting genocide, but I’m the one who deserves abuse?

                And you want me to believe that Democrats aren’t like MAGA? It sure looks like MAGA to me, and you’re telling me to not believe my own eyes. (Maybe easy for you when you’re not the one being abused for the crime of disagreeing with people.)

                Maybe the Democrats have become MAGA and you just don’t want to notice it.

                • LeadersAtWork@lemmy.world
                  2·
                  3 个月前

                  No, we’re not like MAGA. I can’t speak for everyone in this case, I am sure there are some who will take it too far. That’s part of the nature of divisiveness. That said, let me make a list of what those on the left do agree on:

                  1. Universal healthcare
                  2. Positive, even progressive, policies and direction
                  3. Federal support of the 4-day work week
                  4. Stronger emphasis and follow-thru on climate change
                  5. Ending the war in Ukraine (not to the disadvantage of the Ukrainians or advantage of Putin) and the situation in Gaza
                  6. Slashing of the military budget (goes alongside universal healthcare)
                  7. Liveable wages and reasonable new childcare leave for any parent
                  8. Affordable education
                  9. Affordable life-saving drugs/life-changing drugs such as anti-depression meds AND universal acceptance of therapy
                  10. Businesses, owners, CEOs, and the billionaire class being held accountable
                  11. Trump. Prison. NOW
                  12. Increase on 1% taxes
                  13. Women’s reproductive rights
                  14. Minority rights
                  15. Gerrymandering limitations or outright ban
                  16. Burning down the electoral college
                  17. More than two viable political parties

                  I’m sure some stuff is missing. Ya’ll have to forgive me, I did my best off top of my head.

                  Somewhat more controversial is how some of us are tired of averting our eyes and turning our gazes away. Moreover, the Republicans play dirty. They fling shit, set fire to conversations, attempt to hide in plain sight in forums claiming to be someone else, will break laws if it means hurting someone they don’t like, and they may even attempt to overthrow a country. Let me just grab the citation on that last one.

                  We are not like MAGA. We are sick of the shit. I was one of the people who pushed for us to stop being so damned tolerant BECAUSE tolerance is a BIG reason why we’re where we are now. We believe in what’s on that list for the benefit of all. Republicans fight against it for the benefit of the few, and more importantly the injuring of those they do not like.

                  So when you call us blueMAGA. When you claim we are no better. Yeah, Homerian, we tell you to suck it, because it’s not true.

                  Btw, if Harris-Walz turned and started spouting MAGA bs, we’d turn on them in a heartbeat. We do not want a Trump or a MAGA in sheep’s clothing.

                • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
                  19·
                  3 个月前

                  By the way, the Democrats didn’t become this way overnight. They were steered this way by their leadership.

                  The party in general follows the direction of the leaders. The people here are calling Gabbard a Russian agent because Hillary Clinton did that in 2016. The people here are okay with supporting Israel’s genocide because Biden said he supports Israel.

                  I will be watching over the next two months to see if Harris and Walz can steer the party back to sanity, but so far it’s not looking good.

              • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
                115·
                3 个月前

                Homerian, I’ve been rather patient.

                You’ve been patient with me?

                This is the first time I’ve said anything to you. I haven’t demanded any of your time.

                I don’t feel you’ll have your mind or opinions changed by words on an online forum, largely due to how you don’t typically listen rationally.

                Look at this thread. I’m being downvoted for correctly pointing out who was president of Ukraine during a particular event. For correctly pointing out when China last ruled Vietnam. For pointing out what “red scare” means.

                If I fail to be persuaded by this particular online forum, it’s probably because this particular forum is showing me that it doesn’t care about facts.

                We both deserve some level of respect, if only as fellow human beings.

                Thank you. I appreciate you saying that, when so many others in this thread have used insults, called me stupid, and accused me of being a troll.

                But you’re also being very condescending. (I’m sorry, I don’t know how else to respond to someone saying I “don’t typically listen rationally”.)

                However, we are NOT MAGA. We do not subscribe willfully to a cult without first being tricked

                Well, neither do the MAGA people. They’ve been tricked. They’re the product of fearmongering and misinformation.

                I’ve always hoped that the antidote to that kind of hysteria was facts and information, and I’ve been frustrated that MAGA people (including those in my family) aren’t more receptive to facts. They’ve become skeptical of any information that isn’t presented to them by “their side”.

                Now look at this thread. Facts are being downvoted. Anyone who disagrees with the Democrats must be an agent of Russian disinformation and we must distrust what they say (and we’ll yell at them and insult them for good measure). And heaven forbid that anyone criticize Harris. That’s what I mean by the Democrats becoming like MAGA.

                If Harris or Walz or Obama or fucking Abraham Lincoln came back and began yelling about how they will become King

                Trump didn’t say he would be a King.

                Others said that the supreme court ruling made the president like a king. Maybe you’re thinking of that.

                Trump also said he would be a dictator on Day 1 (by which he meant that he would pass a lot of laws by executive order on Day 1, not that he would rule like a dictator throughout his term in office). You might be thinking of that.

                We follow those we follow because right now there aren’t many choices

                Yeah, I understand that. I honestly do.

                Like, when I say I’m leaning towards voting Trump, it’s not because I love Trump. I am similarly dealing with a lack of good options.

                But backing a particular horse doesn’t mean you have to be uncritical of that horse and attack others who do criticize that horse. That’s where you start to seem like a cult.

                Harris has said some good things. (Like, I think her housing initiative is very good.) But she’s also said some worrying things. (I’m currently quite rattled by her staunch pro-Israel speech, which has been followed by Israel attacking Lebanon.) I think the way to advocate for Harris is to point out what you like about her, rather than attacking people who criticize her.

                we want what’s best for everyone in this country

                I just want the best for people too.

                • LeadersAtWork@lemmy.world
                  12·
                  3 个月前

                  You have though. In other threads, for other reasons. We have interacted. I recently re-read the Odyssey, so your name stuck with me. I know you get commonly downvoted and challenged, which is why I’m trying to be, well…hopefully understanding and not condescending. It’s a fine line to walk and one I’m not sure I’m wise enough to navigate accurately, something you in fact point out. I’m not really sure how to fix that.

                  The reason I responded is because we aren’t blindly supporting Harris, and many of us are tired of the shit flinging the Right tends to rely on. This is why I approached you here. It isn’t necessarily that we don’t agree with facts you may present, it’s that you appear to us to be attempting to discount a hope we have that Harris and now Walz represents.

                  You do you. I just see you comment on here often and I feel as if it must be disheartening to constantly be getting downvoted. Challenge the status quo, express unpopular opinions. If you want people to not get defensive though, try to meet them on their level a bit. Unlike MAGA, we are reasonable. We will criticize Harris. It’s just at the point where the alternative is so incredibly, maliciously evil that we, and I, legitimately fear them succeeding. We bite back because for years we were tolerant. Enough is enough.

                  I don’t know if you’ll listen or understand. I just put myself in your shoes and wanted to express what I feel must be some reasons why you seem to be disagreed with so often. Whatever others might believe, we need people who will speak out. This is just my lame attempt to make your words reach people more clearly.

      • rsuri@lemmy.world
        171·
        3 个月前

        She’s not anti-war if she’s supporting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. She’s anti-fighting back.

      • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
        197·
        3 个月前

        Haha this guy… Acting like Putin cares when he happily helped Assad bomb his own people all the while invading a Sovereign nation for imperial ambitions hahahah

        • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
          230·
          3 个月前

          when he happily helped Assad bomb his own people

          And which side of the Syrian war are you on?

          The side that wants to topple Assad and install an intolerant Sunni theocracy?

          • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
            76·
            3 个月前

            And which side of the Syrian war are you on?

            FSA.

            Anything is better than a walking shit-stain who uses chemical weapons against their own citizens, including children. You should be ashamed.

            Boy, Russian troops really got fucked up America when they crossed the river in Syria. Got a hefty dose of what a C-130 Gunship can do, huh?

      • NIB@lemmy.world
        11·
        3 个月前

        Lets see what George Orwell wrote about that. Try to read all of it, especially the last paragraph. It isnt about being against pacifism, it’s about how pacifism can be used by authoritarian regimes on liberal countries and how that societal asymmetry defines the end result.

        Pacifism. Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me’.

        The idea that you can somehow remain aloof from and superior to the struggle, while living on food which British sailors have to risk their lives to bring you, is a bourgeois illusion bred of money and security.

        Mr Savage remarks that ‘according to this type of reasoning, a German or Japanese pacifist would be “objectively pro-British”.’ But of course he would be! That is why pacifist activities are not permitted in those countries (in both of them the penalty is, or can be, beheading) while both the Germans and the Japanese do all they can to encourage the spread of pacifism in British and American territories. The Germans even run a spurious ‘freedom’ station which serves out pacifist propaganda indistinguishable from that of the P.P.U. They would stimulate pacifism in Russia as well if they could, but in that case they have tougher babies to deal with.

        In so far as it takes effect at all, pacifist propaganda can only be effective against those countries where a certain amount of freedom of speech is still permitted; in other words it is helpful to totalitarianism.

        Not all wars are good. I was against the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions. But this war is one of the few occasions where american interests mostly align with the moral thing, helping an invaded country defend against an imperial invader. This is one of the least controversial and relatively clean cut wars in history.

        • TheHiddenCatboy@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          3 个月前

          Awesome quote and context.

          The First Iraqi War passed the test. Iraq invaded Kuwait. We went in to give them a little taste of that #1 Military Spending and remind them that we’re the big kid on the block, and in the moment, we were the big kid who beat up bullies and gave the little boy his lunch money back. Ukraine is much the same way, and we’d be justified in setting down troops in Ukraine and driving the Russians right back to the agreed upon borders and then stopping and hardening borders up there.

          We’re not always perfect. The Second Iraq War showed that. And while we entered Afghanistan with good intentions (Bin Laden sleeping with the fishes was a net good for the world), we got bogged down in the sort of stuff that turned Vietnam bad. But we can’t throw the good wars (World War 2 and beating the Nazis being the biggest example of these) away just because we’ve done wrong in war. We just need to be cognizant of what we’re doing in EACH war and be willing to draw our lines in the sand, much like Bush-41 did with the first Iraq war.

          • NIB@lemmy.world
            3·
            3 个月前

            When it comes to military action, it is all about proportionality. Obviously Israel has the right to defend itself but killing(and starving) tens of thousands of people and flattening Gaza is not proportional. Obviously the US has the right to defend itself but invading and occupying Afghanistan for 20 years, suspending human rights(Guantanamo/cia black sites/patriot act) is not proportional.

            And the Iraq invasion was straight up imperialistic, literally what Russia is doing now to Ukraine, which is why tankies use that invasion as a “gotcha”. Which is why everyone in the EU opposed, even most EU governments. There were a lot of protests in EU in opposition of that invasion.

      • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemmy.zipEnglish
        31·
        3 个月前

        LOL that ratio. It’s generally considered a landslide victory to secure 65% or more of the vote. You’re hovering around 2.4%. Massacred.

        • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
          211·
          3 个月前

          Behold the Democrats. They love war, they love doubling down on war, and anyone who opposes their war agenda must be loudly denouced as a Russian.

          None of them even tried to argue that the Democrats value peace (because they can’t, can they?). They just tried to say Russia is worse.

      • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
        277·
        3 个月前

        You all thought liberalism meant peace. You were wrong. Liberalism is violence.

        Take a good look at the world. Liberalism is violence.

          • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
            357·
            3 个月前

            Because of a decline in wars in Europe.

            I already said that liberals care about conflict in Europe. They don’t mind sponsoring conflict elsewhere.

            • cabron_offsets@lemmy.world
              301·
              3 个月前

              Look at the chart, you idiot.

              • Taiping rebellion
              • Lopez war
              • Armenian genocide
              • Vietnam
              • Cambodia
              • Afghanistan
              • Rwanda

              Not to mention many more conflicts not explicitly called out in the chart, like the Russo-Japanese war, the umpteen conflicts in Myanmar, India-Pakistan, Korean War, Iran-Iraq, gulf war, Syrian revolution, East Timor… I could go on, but there’s no point. It’s like trying to teach a dog turd to go fetch.

        • HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world
          161·
          3 个月前

          Liberals only ever cared about peace in Europe. The rest of the world was an asset to be mined and exploited by whatever violent means necessary.

  • Golfnbrew@lemmy.worldEnglish
    985·
    3 个月前

    And… Hilary was right.

    (not so coincidentally, that is the name of my wifi network in my red neighborhood, so it can be seen!)

    • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
      3129·
      3 个月前

      Edit2: words, format

      The 2016 Russiagate smears because she lost to Trump…

      The DNC and the politicians bought by the owner-class are the ones pushing out these long-time Democrats.

      Tulsi was for Bernie Sanders; I wonder what could have caused such a big shift.

      I suggest learning more from independent journalists and not just from owner-class media.

      • Zaktor@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        78·
        3 个月前

        If you paid literally any attention to Tulsi Gabbard before she rebelled against the DNC, this new turn would not be so confusing to you. She was an anti-gay activist and pro-drone strike Fox News guest before she had a brief dalliance with the anti-establishment left.

        • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
          152·
          3 个月前

          Tulsi Gabbard before she rebelled against the DNC

          “If you paid literally any attention” to the presidential debates, you would know she was pushing for Bernie Sanders policies as well.

          Culture wars and identity politics will always divide the working class, and I will not disagree with you about that.

          Tulsi said she was against regime change wars, but yes, she has the status quo policies on our forever wars and regime change wars. I agree again.

      • theprogressivist @lemmy.world
        68·
        3 个月前

        Oh, fuck off, man. It doesn’t take a fucking genius, let alone someone as smug as you, to see how much of a piece of shit she’s always been.

        • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
          283·
          3 个月前

          Following the owner-class talking points and smears.

          It’s not hard to tell who falls for the Blue MAGA talking points every four years, with their continuous fear mongerging to sway any dissidence.

          I am against the duopoly, and I will proudly support third parties that are for the working class.

          • MrVilliam@lemmy.worldEnglish
            401·
            3 个月前

            I will proudly support third parties

            You could’ve just stopped there. This is all anybody needs to see to know that nobody should listen to you. In our shitty first past the post system, all this does is pull frustrated people away from the mostly reasonable but imperfect choice. You’re either clueless or intentionally attempting to dissuade people from voting for democrats in order to help trump to win. In this system, a third party candidate cannot fucking win. There is no actual “blue maga” for you to whine about. Stop spreading bullshit. I’m glad your username is so stupid that it’s easy to see on its face that your account’s entire existence is predicated on sowing division or you might actually have a chance at convincing some people. Unfortunately for you, most of the people on lemmy are smarter than the people on reddit. If you actually cared about defending American democracy, you’d shut the fuck up instead of saying this dumbass bullshit that serves only to dismantle what crumbs of democracy we have left, whether your sabotaging words are intentional or not. If you keep posting this braindead shit, then I’ll know for sure that you just want more fascism than we already have. So for the love of all that you are at least claiming to hold dear, shut the entire fuck up about this. Yes, capitalism bad, so actually maybe let’s not hand the country over to donald fucking trump, famous asshole criminal capitalist.

            • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
              252·
              3 个月前

              It seems you want a community built upon self-censorship and echo chambers.

              I disagree with your point of view and your talking points.

              We just have a difference in opinion and how we see the world, due to our upbringing and what we read and watch.

              Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter, even if we do not agree.

          • theprogressivist @lemmy.world
            35·
            3 个月前

            Another one acting like Trump has been in every election cycle since the start of this country. Such obvious bad faith rhetoric. And Kudos for you for being gullible and being proud of it.

          • legion02@lemmy.world
            27·
            3 个月前

            Dude you’re not supposed to go full-troll, gotta keep just a hint of sincerity in there or the normies will sniff you out. There’s no coming back from that.

          • barsquid@lemmy.world
            8·
            3 个月前

            “Blue MAGA.” What happened to “independent journalism” if you’re pretending this idea from the far right exists in reality?

        • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
          355·
          3 个月前

          Echo chambers and self-censorship do not help the working class.

          Diverse ideas and thoughts are needed in Lemmy, even if they may be seen as controversial or extreme from the status quo point of view.

          Most posts on Lemmy are from owner-class media and the duopoly talking points.

          • CaliforniaSober@lemmy.caEnglish
            382·
            3 个月前

            Lies don’t help either.

            Being so dense as to lead folks off a cliff doesn’t help.

            Calling the world “owner class” and then recommending horse shit is a poison pill.

            You’re either malicious or too stupid to see the harm you create.

            Regardless you keep equating Lemmy with media and showing everyone the “quality” of your argument.

            • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
              345·
              3 个月前

              Thanks for joining in.

              I disagree, but feel free to continue your status quo world views.

              I will continue to share my diverse ideas.

              • CaliforniaSober@lemmy.caEnglish
                313·
                3 个月前

                I’ve been here for a while.

                Your posts have been continuously rejected. You are almost unanimously rejected every time you show up and shit one sided bs.

                Why do you call that diversity?

                Other diverse folks get persecuted by the same people you refuse to criticize. Why do you claim yourself as diverse?

                • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
                  336·
                  3 个月前

                  rejected every time you show up

                  That is to be expected when you go against the status quo and the duopoly.

                  Other diverse folks get persecuted by the same people you refuse to criticize.

                  You are just assuming now, I call out the duopoly, not just one or the other.

                  You reminded me of these quotes:

                  “I don’t criticize Democrats cuz I side with Republicans, I criticize Democrats Cuz THEY side with Republicans.”

                  “Our fight is not Left/Right anymore, it is Us vs.Them.”

                  “We have 2 corporate party’s that serve Wall St/War Machine/Corporations & crush everyone else. #UniParty @0rf”

                  diversity

                  “diversity – A variety or assortment.”

                  Again, I try to share things not seen in Lemmy, so it is expected that people only wanting the status quo will push against anything outside of that view point.

            • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
              135·
              3 个月前

              Edit2: words, phrasing

              Your label of smearing those that do not agree with everything you say says more about you than it does of what I share.

              Gatekeeping the working class, nice.

              We just have a difference in opinion; there is no need to project or assume the worst of people that do not fall in line with your way of seeing the world.

                • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
                  120·
                  3 个月前

                  Edit: wording

                  Thank you, but we all can learn from those we do not agree with.

                  We must continue to learn and improve ourselves, or try to.

              • TheHiddenCatboy@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                3 个月前

                This is something I have to comment on. This user says that it represents the working class, while advocating for switching votes from the political party closest to its platform to a third party.

                A reminder of how politics works in the USA. Suppose you have a school with 100 kids voting for class president. The school is equally divided between the Jocks and the Nerds. The Jocks are represented by a pretty and charismatic, but quite vain and assholish, cheerleader. The Nerds are represented by a dull nerdy kid, complete with boxy glasses and a pocket protector. And the School is preparing these young Americans for life in the USA, so the election is First Past the Post.

                The school has a slight lean towards the Nerds. As in 51 kids would vote for the dull nerdy kid rather than the pretty jerkish cheerleader. 49 would prefer the cheerleader. Now, the cheerleader has a single nerd in her orbit, a bookish girl who’s good with maths. She sits down with the cheerleader and points out ‘if the election were held today, you’d lose 51 to 49.’ The cheerleader throws a temper tantrum, and then demands to know how to win, because her pappy didn’t raise no loser. Bookish girl tells her ‘You need to suppress the vote and distract the voters on the other side. If you peel off at least 3 voters, you’ll win 49 to 48. Make a scandal up, present the other side with an alternative, and convince those nerds to stay home or vote third party, and you can win this.’ The cheerleader and the bookish girl come up with a plan – a scandal and a third party candidate.

                The scandals are easy. One of the cheerleaders, friends with THE cheerleader, comes up with a rumour that the nerdy boy came on to her at prom. This gets the feminists in the boy’s coalition up in arms, and they scream they won’t vote for him because he’s a skeesy boy who puts his hands on girls uninvited, despite no proof that he actually ever did something like that. And the distraction? Bookish girl. Cheerleader pretties her up, and positions her as an alternative to dull nerdy boy. And they also set up a few other distractions for election day, which will be outside of school hours. Enter a book club meeting and a video game tournament…during voting hours.

                Election day comes. 4 gamers are playing at the tournament and two bookish kids are at the book club meeting, and not voting. 51 votes becomes 45 votes. Another 15 kids vote for Bookish Girl Candidate, in a mix of ‘she’s pretty’ and ‘Dull Nerd Candidate is a skirt-chaser!’ That takes Team Nerd down to 30 votes. Of course, Bookish Girl Candidate was never in it to win, so she would have voted Team Cheerleader if it was closer, but between her and the 15 kids, Team Bookish Girl got 16 votes. But First Past the Post means Team Jock wins with 48 votes, and all 51 Nerds get the exact opposite of what they want for the next schoolyear as the Book and Game club get closed down in favour of more Jock activities.

                Accounts like jimmydoreisalefty and others are the Bookish Nerd Girl in this example. They are here to convince us to stay home or vote Third Party, while screaming that Dull Nerd Boy shouldn’t ever get our vote for a litany of reasons. Listen to them at your peril. They do not have your best interests in mind. They want Cheerleader to win, and to take away your Book Club and your Game Club. Or put more realistically, they want Team Trump to win and take away your civil rights and subject you to an authoritarian nightmare in the order of what Putin, Xi, Orban, Kim, Netanyahu, and other authoritarian strongmen dictators have planned for their nations.

                This isn’t Left-Wing vs. Right-Wing. It’s Egalitarian vs Authoritarian, and the Authoritarians smell blood in the water. Be careful and mindful how you use your vote.

                PS: Yes, I agree with Leate_Wonceslace here. This user is not an honest debater. It’s here for nefarious purposes: To enable Trump to steal the election and force Project 2025 on us. Keeping this in the here and now, and keeping it real.

      • barsquid@lemmy.world
        10·
        3 个月前

        “Independent journalists,” but he posts a fuckload of podcasts from far right radical propagandists. I think I prefer fact-based journalism to brainwashing myself, thanks though.

      • Vespair@lemm.ee
        10·
        3 个月前

        Guys please stop arguing with this disingenuous accelerationist. They clearly give zero fucks about actually making the world better or improving conditions for real people, they’re just here to cosplay revolutionary and support the conservative status quo.

        Don’t engage with them, just block them.

          • Vespair@lemm.ee
            1·
            3 个月前

            How exactly does blocking them amplify their voice, especially when loudly calling for others to do the same?

            • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
              2·
              3 个月前

              Blocking them doesn’t silence them. It just means that you, specifically, can no longer see them. Which means you can no longer downvote them or call them out.

              Blocking someone is not winning an argument, it’s ceding the floor to them.

              • TheHiddenCatboy@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                3 个月前

                Unfortunately, you can’t call them out like they should be called out because we handcuff ourselves with rules about ‘civility’ when they have none. Thus we only can try to call their arguments out, which of course leads to a circular argument where you lay out the counterpoints to their nonsense and they repeat it, just more fervently. Within the context of both the rules and the mods choice to enforce them more on our side than the dishonest people who come here, ESPECIALLY with the prohibitions of calling a spade a spade (no calling shills, no calling trolls, no calling Russian plants, no calling out as a bot or a sock puppet, even if it’s clear the account in question is what’s being called). When you’re basically told ‘be nice to people who are not being nice to you’, the only real answer is to block and move on.

                • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  3 个月前

                  the only real answer is to block and move on.

                  Hard disagree. There’s usually more of us than them, and as we can see from lemmy.ml, when mods/admins blatantly and obviously go against the will of the people, then people abandon them. Seeing 15 upvotes and 136 downvotes is a powerful indicator. Seeing a series of people ridiculing a tankie or fascist or “bothsides” troll is powerful. Mods get afraid to be obviously partisan because people will leave.

                  But when people avoid testy conversations, it gives power to those trolls and partisan mods.

  • chakan2@lemmy.worldEnglish
    83·
    3 个月前

    “I know what I mean when I share with you that President Trump understands the grave responsibility that a president and commander-in-chief bears for every single one of our lives,” she said.

    I really only have obscenities at this point. Lots of them…maybe all of them.

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
      25·
      3 个月前

      “I know what I mean when I share with you that President Trump understands the grave responsibility that a president and commander-in-chief bears for every single one of our lives,” she said.

      …and he doesn’t give single shit about any of those responsibilities or those lives. He will walk on your grandmother’s face if it means saving a single step to wrap his small fingers around a can of Diet Coke sooner.

  • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
    827·
    3 个月前

    Damn we need that clown meme up in here. I remember when she was a big supporter of Bernie in 2016. So I’m guessing she was just a Putin puppet the whole time right?

    I honestly thought she might be Trump’s VP.

  • Jesus@lemmy.world
    741·
    3 个月前

    He keeps us in his heart

    Sure. Tell that to the women that he took abortion rights from, or the refugee kids that he stripped from families, or the people he tried to deny health care, or the natural disaster victims in blue states that he tried not to help because they voted for the other party, etc etc etc.

    This man has never cared about anyone other than himself.

    If he’s pretending to care about you, it’s because he thinks you’re a useful idiot that will get him into a position of power that he can exploit.

  • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
    787·
    3 个月前

    The timing of her endorsement was not accidental. Gabbard, a member of the Hawaii National Guard, had earlier gone to Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia with Trump to lay a wreath marking the third anniversary of the deaths of 13 American servicemen at the Abbey Gate of Kabul Airport during the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan.

    I just want to remind people. You’re going to hear about this in the coming weeks. When some dumb fuck tells you that the Afghan withdrawal was a disaster:

    • Ask why the 3 past Presidents kicked the can down the road (rhetorical: It was ALWAYS going to be a disaster on the ground and politically disadvantageous).

    • Ask them if they know how many total US service members died under Trump’s term versus Biden’s in Afghanistan. (HINT: The total deaths under Trump is SIXTY-FIVE. The total under Biden: 13)

    • Thanks to Biden, ZERO American servicemen have died in 2022, 2023, and 2024 in Afghanistan — the first 0 years since 2001.

    Biden’s withdrawal from Afghanistan will be praised in history books as a political sacrifice that ultimately saved more American lives in the long-run.

    • sneekee_snek_17@lemmy.world
      24·
      3 个月前

      The withdrawal from Afghanistan is the the most genuine “the buck stops here”, that I can remember. He ripped off the bandaid and it was the right call

    • madcaesar@lemmy.world
      20·
      3 个月前

      The only question I ask is, who started both illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan??

      Republicans! W Bush. Everything else is bullshittery designed to deflect blame from Republicans and the mess they caused.

      I’ve said it before, Republicans are assholes that take a shit in your living room then complain about how you are cleaning it up and how you’re not fast enough.

      • jdf038@mander.xyz
        11·
        3 个月前

        And Republicans will have the balls to tell you they were against it from the start which pisses me off more. I mean who invented freedom fries?!

        • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
          78·
          3 个月前

          I distinctly remember my parents being in the deep minority of our area and our extended family in their protest of especially Iraq and prolonged duration in Afghanistan. It’s actually a big part of what flipped my family to Democrats and never looked back.

          Fox News was beating the drums of war, Bush was saying, “You’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists,” and I would see signs in the South while on vacation saying, “Nuke the bastards”

          Republicans dragged Democrats along and yes many Democrats begrudgingly went along because the hysteria was so great that if you went against the war we would only have had 1 party now.

          Democrats were the first to oppose, and as said, Democrats were the ones to end it.

    • Nurgus@lemmy.world
      15·
      3 个月前
      • Ask who let the Taliban out of Afghanistan’s prisons? Trump did a deal with the Taliban and had the American military crack open the prisons, against the wishes of the supposedly sovereign Afghanistan government.
    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      91·
      3 个月前

      Biden’s withdrawal from Afghanistan will be praised in history books as a political sacrifice that ultimately saved more American lives in the long-run.

      Maybe. But I still hear people insist we could have won Vietnam.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
          31·
          3 个月前

          The ideas don’t come ex nihilo, though. There’s a vested interest among the large and influential pro-war lobbying community to convince policy makers and voters that these endless wars are beneficial, even part of some utopian global project of peace.

          “Vietnam was winnable” as an idea persists because it was so profitable. And because Americans really want to believe their military is this unstoppable force, capable of solving any foreign policy problem.

  • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
    32·
    3 个月前

    Oh, isn’t she the one that’s in some weird religious org that’s more like a cult? I believe I listened to a podcast or two about her when she was making the rounds a couple years ago.