Doesn’t matter what the headlines or the opinion polls say. Vote like democracy depends on it!
I voted for that bowl of tapioca once and I’ll do it again.
I’ll likely vote someone else in the primaries though.
Does anyone not think that?
The people who think fascism could never come here, I guess?
The people who think now is the time to make a moral stand by voting 3p
Those people should probably take a look at the Nazi march that went down in Wisconsin yesterday if they think it’s not or can’t happen in the US.
Wait you can lose elections? Shit …
I don’t think about this ever. I’m literally waiting for one of those two worthless parties to die.
Oh, it’s both parties are the same so I’ll do nothing guy!
Biden could have done what’s best for the country and been a one term president. I’ll still vote for him but not because he’s some amazing leader or anything.
So they did it to themselves if they lose.
I don’t know, I think the situation is more nuisanced. I didn’t vote for Biden in the primaries (I did in the general), but I have to admit he’s accomplished a lot more than I anticipated he would. At the time I just wanted a president who wasn’t a complete train wreck.
I’d be all in if he was younger, but even so, I’m not sure what the best option is. If Biden stepped aside, I’m not sure the Democrats’ ability to win in 2024 would go up. Incumbents have an advantage for sure, and there isn’t an obvious choice to replace him. The most important thing at this point is that Trump doesn’t win. Whatever situation maximizes the chance of him losing is good with me.
I see that point of view. Out of curiosity, though, do you think there’s an obvious next in line on the bench? The only person I can think of as a no brainer for electability is Michelle Obama.
She does not want to hold public office. As you may recall she wasn’t treated very well.
I’m really hoping Gretchen Whitmer runs in 28 but for this cycle it would probably be Newsome. Sherrod Brown would be great but he is the only person in Ohio that could keep that senate seat blue. Manchin probably runs off Biden isn’t there. Harris and buttigieg are"in line"but personally I can’t stand either.
Do you think, that maybe, if Biden had chosen to support another candidate, all those “Blue No Matter Who” types would dog pile people not supporting that candidate?
they’ve had four years to figure that out. That they can’t… is either a sign of gross incompetence or of intentionality. either way, at a certain point, you need to stop and realize the way it’s not worked for 30+ years is… not working and maybe it’s time to change things up a bit.
Do you think, that maybe, if Biden had chosen to support another candidate, all those “Blue No Matter Who” types would dog pile people not supporting that candidate?
It depends on how far to the right the candidate is. Get far enough to the left, and they start bein’ like “Party Unity My Ass” and start forming PACs to get Republicans elected
EDIT: I see centrists don’t like being reminded of their proudest moment: trying to get McCain/Palin elected because they didn’t get their first choice in the '08 primaries.
At the beginning of his term, I’d have said they were lining up Harris; black, woman, young, and they made her highly visible in the first few months. I thought for sure they were going to spend 4 years lining her up for 2024. Biden would gracefully bow out citing his age, ride the 1/2 term election cycle, and badaboom: first female president.
And then she faded away. I don’t know what happened; she didn’t poll well, or do well, or polling showed D chances sank without an old white guy in front… but it makes me kinda sad, because I thought it was a good strategy, and it’d be nice to have a run of diversity in the White House.
I swear it’s like she freaked out at the idea of the attention and just faded out of existence. It’s so annoying cause she crushed people to get where she is and does nothing to make good use of it
I agree, Newsome would have been a good candidate. Hell there are half a dozen good candidates that are half Bidens age. If Dems loose, I agree they did it to themselves by letting Biden run again.
Newsom is too Cali.
My question is who are they asking for these poles?
People who are willing to answer a call from an unknown number then answer questions for 15 minutes.
So, basically nobody under the age of about 40.
Worse: people who answer the call on their land line.
48 and don’t even answer known numbers.
😂
But those are the people who vote as long as they have a pulse. Don’t get complacent. That’s one of the reasons we had a Trump administration in the first place.
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Damn, dude. Why you gotta do my like that? I grew up on (dial up) internet, dammit.
polls
The political state of America feels like a pole. An ungreased one, shoved straight up the bhole
Sideways.
methodology shall be listed with the polls themselves.
Man, they intentionally picked the most frail looking photo of Biden they could find, didn’t they?
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Wait… Are you talking about the image at the top where he’s got his fingers on his chin?
How does that look frail? Lol. The dude looks healthy, he’s not pallor, his eyes aren’t glazed over, he’s just old lmfao.
His skin and hair make him look like a rest home resident, not the White House resident.
The government would work a lot better if all the old fucks stopped trying to make everything a petty competition with winners and losers.
As opposed to all the Republicans trying to make it a competition with only losers.
I think they are all equally as stupid and self centered, regardless of which side they are on. The only difference is that the stupidity of Republicans happens to hurt the working class more often than not.
So, what are they doing to energize the base?
Democrat Base: “Hey, can we… uh… fix… you know…” gestures broadly at fucking everything
Biden: “You got it, champ, unlimited funding for Israel’s war effort.”
Just give me fireside chats reassuring us that it’s not just Biden’s rich friends and the sister he forced to help a nanny for his kids that will be ok would be really nice right now.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
And while he’s downplayed the role his advanced age could have on his ability to lead, polling’s revealed that more than three-fourths of US adults think he’s simply too old for another four years in the White House.
The publication said that some of those around the president have advocated for him to walk shorter distances and ditch his dress shoes for more comfortable ones, sometimes sneakers, to lower the risk of him falling.
A poll released in early November by the New York Times and Siena College also showed Trump leading the Democratic president in five of six battleground states.
If he can regain the trust and support of his 2020 electorate, especially the young voters who voted for him in droves but hate how he’s handled the conflict in the Middle East, he’s got more than a fair shot at winning reelection.
Additionally, Trump, the party’s leading candidate by a wide margin, is currently fighting a mountain of legal battles after getting charged with 91 felonies by grand juries across the country throughout 2023.
The Supreme Court’s decision in 2022 to overturn decades of precedent for abortion access has also led to Democratic voters turning out in record numbers, especially when abortion-related referendums are on the ballot like in Ohio and Kansas.
The original article contains 718 words, the summary contains 214 words. Saved 70%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Imagine thinking that Trump is in any way, shape, or form, better for you and your family than Biden.
Conservatives and Republicans: hate working class people, hate people that rent, hate minorities including women, want to privatize every last piece of American society so you’ll have to subscribe to your alarm clock and appliances.
So I’m supposed to vote for the genocide supplier?
want to privatize every last piece of American society
And Democrats are not doing this?
Like it or not we are stuck with a two party system. As fucking awful as Biden is, and he is, Biden is the lesser of two evils by far. And that applies to democrats/republicans as a whole.
Both parties/candidates are to some degree cool with genocide and privatization, but only one of the two stands out as the worst, and the worst by a lot.
Don’t like it? Vote for local candidates/congressional candidates in primaries that will fix the two party problem. But in the mean time the better presidential option will be anything with a D next to their name.
I will not vote for the party of genocide supply. Aka the dems.
Local candidates are not going fix the two party system. That’s a national issue.
I don’t know the solution, but buying into the Dems bullshit “lesser of Two evils” AGAIN is not it.
Have fun being the same chump you were 8 years ago.
You want to ever vote again? Then take a long, hard look at what each party is trying to do about voting rights. If you want to stop genocide, a Republican in office is the worst-case scenario for you; and there is a non-zero chance that voting against Democrats in 2024 means that 2024 will be our last real election ever, after which the genocide would come across the ocean.
Think about the worst case scenarios here—in case of a blue wave, the worst case is another four years of lackluster governance and pretending to keep our hands clean of the worst stuff happening in the world, while winking at corporate greed and doing nothing about climate change. Not a great outcome.
In case of a red wave, we don’t have to guess about the worst case, because Trump is telling us what he’ll do: make anything but Christianity illegal, militarize the borders to turn away refugees, curtail the first amendment, hand Ukraine over to Russia, help Israel glass Palestine, make it harder (impossible if he can manage it) for people to vote against him, try to get an extra four years as penance for what he sees as a “stolen” election, retaliate against anyone trying to hold him accountable for his crimes, roll back environmental protections that will make climate change irreversible, nominate perhaps another SCOTUS justice who’s even more unhinged than the other three he installed, and vague threats of violence toward everyone who isn’t straight and cis. That is all stuff that he has promised to do at his rallies. And all of that isn’t even touching on the financial disaster that his tax policies actually unleashed between 2016-2020, and the regular horror of mass shootings and white supremacy that goes up under every pro-gun president, but Trump in particular. Not a survivable outcome.
This isn’t a normal election. Giving Trump (or, at this point, any Republican) a chance is off the table. He’s shown us and told us what he’ll do if he gets the White House again. If you want to vote third party to send a message, you have to contend with the possibility that there won’t be anyone left to hear it in 2028. Yes, people’s lives are on the line. So don’t let Republicans have the chance to step across that line.
Replace evey year you listed with 2012.
And replace trump with George w Bush.
These were the same arguments being made by Dems back then. I voted. And we still have genocide supply. The genocide we have now is unacceptable. Just because there is potential for it to get worse don’t mean I should accept they situation we have now.
Biden cut check to Israel with a smile on his face. So will the republican party and so will future democrats. None of them will be getting my vote.
You’re a genocide apologist when you vote blue.
I will not vote for the party of genocide supply. Aka the dems.
They’re both supporting the ongoing genocide. This isn’t helpful for deciding who to vote for.
Local candidates are not going fix the two party system. That’s a national issue.
Which is why I specified local/congressional. It’s going to take all levels of government to unfuck us from a two party system.
I don’t know the solution, but buying into the Dems bullshit “lesser of Two evils” AGAIN is not it.
Only one of these choices is actively trying to turn our country into a theocratic hell hole.
The “lesser of two evils” is fucking awful, but it’s true.
Have fun being the same chump you were 8 years ago.
If you can’t talk about politics without resorting to personal insults then you must know how weak your argument is.
They’re both supporting the ongoing genocide. This isn’t helpful for deciding who to vote for.
You are the one deciding between the two only, not me. I will vote for a candidate that has a platform I can support and nothing else.
It’s going to take all levels of government to unfuck us from a two party system.
The dems continue to get elected because of the Two party system. They aren’t going to change it.
Let me know when it does tho…
Only one of these choices is actively trying to turn our country into a theocratic hell hole.
Yes, and the other will happily participate in genocide, be unable to create real change in Any area I care about and then pretend they are the party of moral superiority.
You vote blue you will still have red on your hands.
I don’t understand how they can possibly put Biden forward again. He’s well past losing his marbles. Way too old to run imo. It’s disgraceful.
Isn’t Trump in the same boat? Trump’s 77, Biden’s 81. One may easily argue they’re both much too old to be running.
Ah yes, the obligatory “the other guy is worse” post. We know the other guy is worse. That doesn’t mean democrats shouldn’t pick better candidates.
Well besides being old he’s not really doing so bad tbh. Who else would you put up for election? Jon Stewart?
I like presidents who aren’t pedophiles.
So you won’t vote for Trump the pedophile. Got it.
A criticism of Biden isn’t praise for Trump, no matter how many times you people try to gaslight yourselves into believing otherwise. Yeah, Trump is a pedophile too, point being?
A question to American Lemmy users: from what I can tell you are Democrats for the vast majority : would you consider voting for a Republican president if you aligned with his ideas, or if the Democrat candidate was an unredeemable piece of shit? The two party system makes zero sense to me because it doesn’t seem, at first glance, that they’re a huge overlap, people are not willing to go to the other side often, it seems. … what’s the point of having debates and stuff then?
Within the Democratic party, there’s debate about how to handle climate change. There are people who advocate for slow, cautious changes and still see fossil fuels having a small role to play in the future. There are others within the Democratic party that want more drastic action, and make a huge government spending program to try to rapidly move the US energy to renewables (even naming it after one of the biggest US government programs made during the depression). That’s normal politics. And it’s all within the Democratic party.
The GOP mostly deny climate change exists. A few GOP members suggest that climate change is happening, but is a natural event not caused by man.
The recent house drama from the speakership battle was caused because 10 nutjobs didn’t want to fund any social programs and wouldn’t approve the budget. Most GOP compromised and made a TEMPORARY budget proposal that the Democratic reps would vote for. This caused the hardliners to remove the speaker. Because he had the audacity to compromise on a TEMPORARY budget.
Removing policy aside and just looking at behavior, many GOP members do not believe in compromising to get things done. There’s attempts to not hold elected officials accountable (unless they are from the other party). It’s very little cooperation and more retaliation.
A single GOP senator didn’t like that the US military would reimburse a servicemember’s travel for medical care if they lived in a state where some reproductive treatments weren’t available. This one senator has single-handedly denied 360 military promotions and nominations to military positions. The Senate has historically tried to make it where being the minority party still had some power, so the rules let this happen (the other GOP senators on this committee weren’t blocking, just the one guy).
The Democratic senators became so fed up they decided to change the rules to prevent a single committee member from blocking promotions. While most GOP senators publicly condemn this guy, many said this rule change was too much. So it looks like the rule change vote will be along party lines, although the #1 GOP senator has said it might be necessary to vote through to get the military back on track.
The last GOP senator really known for being reasonable and wanting to work collaboratively (McCain) died. He was respected by both parties until Trump came along, and now the GOP don’t really hold his legacy in high regard.
Sorry, a lot longer than I intended, but it’s a pattern showing no desire to try to govern effectively. Putting all issues of policy aside, I think it’s a bad idea to vote for the GOP.
There IS some degree of factionalism within the two party system. It is much more pronounced in the Democratic Party. Ever since Reagan in 1980, the Republican Party’s factionalism became severely diminished. The Libertarians are kind of their most loosely held affiliation.
The primary system is largely designed help direct and influence the political platforms of the two parties. The two parties have made some significant pivots and switches over its history.
But far more importantly however: What has really happened is the Citizens United and lesser known Speechnow decisions by the US Supreme Court effectively legalized corporate buyout of the American electoral system.
And now we got fascists.
The “Biden sucks” narrative is a little out of control at the moment. I hope his team pivots to highlight all of his successes around the time Trump is getting tossed in prison. That should hopefully be enough juxtaposition for even the most terminally online idiots in this country to not vote for the meme candidate again.
Part of the problem also is that centrist Dem voters are single issue queens and will refuse to turn out if they don’t get their way on certain issues, and a lot of them are drawing lines in the sand over Israel/Palestine right now. In case anybody hasn’t be paying attention, let me assure you, Trump will not end the war in the middle east. If anything, he will accelerate it. If you’re unhappy about Biden supporting Israel but calling for an end to hostilities, boy are you going to be upset if Trump takes the White House and endorses full-on genocide of Muslims in the west bank and complete Russian supremacy in Ukraine.
This mentality of picking between worst options isn’t very appealing. Better y’all vote for some third party (even if they don’t win as whole)
that’s almost the worst thing you can do in a two party system, short of not voting at all. It sucks that the system only really allows two parties but throwing away your vote on a third party is not the way to fix it
Why it is a two party system?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting
Our election system is inherently biased against 3rd party candidates. So we’re stuck with two parties.
And money’s involvement in politics just exacerbates everything.
Appealing? No.
Necessary? Depends what the issues are and how they impact you.
It comes down to game theory. Voting against the lesser evil is advantageous to you because if they win, things will be slightly less bad. If you throw your hands up and say it doesn’t matter, you’re not giving any disadvantage to the greater evil.
Wake up call for who? Will the Democrats ever wake up and give their base something to vote for, instead of “hey, the other guys’s worse, whaddya gonna do?”.
What the hell are you talking about???
The dems have absolutely given us things to vote for: infrastructure act, record low unemployment, union support with the pres visiting the picket line for the first time ever, we have the best inflation rate across all of the G7.
Yeah it’s not enough but that’s on the contrarians more than anything else.
The fuck you talking about
Mmmm, no. I heard that Biden and his ultra-centrist party have done nothing to stop deforestation in the Messia region of Mozambique. I’d rather have Trump and vote my conscience than allow globalists like Biden to ruin the Earth.
(just in case… /s)
They’re repeating right wing propaganda, that’s what’s up.
Sorry, they are not repeating right wing propaganda. They are going outside and having yellow, asparagus smelling, liquid fall on them. Then everywhere they go Democrats are telling them it’s not piss.
I mean generally speaking, if you think the infrastructure bill, inflation reduction act, and billions in student loan forgiveness aren’t “something to vote for”, one of two things are true. Either you’re utterly delusional, or you’re a Republican.
I mean, who else but a conservative could look at these and say they aren’t accomplishments?
I think they do: https://www.whitehouse.gov/therecord/
I just think the Dems suck at advertising it. Hell, I think Biden is trying for at least some student debt relief.
He’s currently failing to handle the current most pressing international issue in a way that satisfies his voter base, though.
So sad that after so many failings, they still cannot learn! Do what’s right, not what’s personally profitable, you scumbags.
Do you want trump? This is how we get trump.
Would I be a bad person if I said I don’t want to vote for either of the evils, and I’m going to vote for Williamson? Or West? I genuinely feel guilty voting for either side and I hate that feeling.
EDIT: Ok then, I will do the right thing, not for Biden’s sake, or that asshole Drumpf, but for us, the american people who are caught in the middle of this shit. Thanks to everyone who chimed in.
As someone who voted third party in the 2016 election, take it from me that you will feel more guilty if you know your vote could have helped prevent the fascist party from gaining power. The presidency is not the office to try to vote on morals, save that for state and local elections that decide things like state benefits programs, distributions of funds, and public works. The federal government is where you will want to vote for the people who are protecting your right to vote in the first place, and that is done by ensuring that the fascist party can’t get a majority or otherwise control a branch of the government.
If the Supreme Court were made up different, maybe, but ending up with an R president just gives them room to pack more courts and see a whole bunch more rights get removed.
Wanting to? No. Actually doing…it’s a little more nuanced for me.
I think that, unless you have reason to believe (beyond just desire to believe) that a 3rd party candidate has a chance to win the general election but you vote for them anyway, yes…you’re a (mildly) bad person.
What do I mean by “has a chance?” Are they on the ballot in enough places to conceivably win the electoral college? Are they polling beyond the single digits anywhere? Do they have enough money to get unengaged voters to at least recognize their name on the ballot?
If you’re deliberately casting a vote for a candidate that can’t win in a two-party system during. normal (meaning there is no extreme candidate running for either party) election, then you are de facto voting for the incumbent (if there is one) as incumbents generally win. I think most rational people would agree that this is (once again), not a normal election. I hesitate to even use the word “normal” because I don’t know if I’ll even get to vote in another normal election. Im 40 to give you an idea of where i think we are right now.
In a normal election, you have 2 viable, good faith candidates. Folks who know enough to be competent and are generally in step with the majority of citizens regatding the soul of our country. Yes, there’s policy differences, and those differences can have HUGE impacts on folks’ well-being…but its not on the level of things like dissolving alliances (as a right-wing example) or nationalizing industries (as a left-wing example). Who do I think have been normal presidents? I’d say Bush Sr. and Clinton were pretty “normal” presidents. They both made mistakes, but nothing on the level of changing a national identity. Bush Jr., I think, would have been a normal president in normal times, but he was vastly ill-equipped for the circumstances of his time in power. His incompetence/dereliction (whatever you want to call it) scarred the soul of this nation. Obama was more normal…again, lots I didn’t agree with there, and some huge accomplishments, but on a policy front, pretty normal. Biden is pretty normal. Trump is not. Of every president in my memory, I can not remember a single one who thought of the office of president solely as a means for personal enrichment. The man has no capacity for empathy or understanding and no desire to try and learn either. He is the only president who didn’t appear to age a decade in their first term because of the weight of the responsibility of the office because he is the only one who never took the job seriously.
Voting for Biden is going to feel unpleasant this year, for sure. But if Biden wins, I have 0 concern about whether there’ll be elections at all in 2028. I don’t think Trump is likely to destroy American democracy, but i don’t think it’s a non-zero value either. The folks backing him learned a lot about what works and what doesn’t…where the seams in our systems are… and they’re telling us how they plan to exploit those seams if he wins to avoid anyone gumming up the fascism machine next time.
Who will win the battle for Corpmurica’s soul?
The racist, willfully ignorant fascists being paid off by the owner class to keep the economy rigged against you as they burn the world for private profit, or the indolent neoliberals being paid off by the owner class to keep the economy rigged against you as they burn the world for private profit?
Find out next November… on… 🔥 King of the Ashes! 🔥
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https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-recipients
These are bribes. Members of both parties largely take them to maintain our rigged economic system. Voting matters!.. on social policy issues, most of which are either caused by or greatly exacerbated by economic policy Americans are not permitted a vote on, as economic policy is bought and paid for. Please retort that those are just “donations” that come without expectation, I could use a laugh.
Ooh, calling me dumb, I’ve got scars from that sick burn.
