Summary
Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) traveled to El Salvador to seek the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland resident wrongfully deported in March.
Abrego Garcia, married to a U.S. citizen with three children, was legally allowed to stay under a 2019 court order.
The Trump administration admitted his deportation was an “administrative error” but refused his return. The Supreme Court ruled against the administration 9-0.
In response, the White House launched a smear campaign against Van Hollen, framing Garcia as a gang member despite no charges or convictions.
A court has demanded the Trump admin return this man, and their defense has been that they don’t have the power to do it. Now they publicly criticize a Senator for trying to get the man returned.
They really are stupid when it comes to undermining their own case, aren’t they?
They really are stupid when it comes to undermining their own case, aren’t they?
No, they are not. It’s a mistake to think of them as stupid, as that leads to underestimating the threat they pose.
They don’t care about winning this case in the conventional sense. Trump and his allies couldn’t care less what happens to Kilmar Abrego Garcia; what they’re after is the power to exile or imprison people without due process of law.
To be fair, Trump really is pretty stupid. His handlers aren’t.
A lot of his handlers are also stupid, especially this term. Some of them aren’t, so there’s still a chance of a coherent plan coming through, but most of the time it’s just stupidity.
No, there absolutely is a coherent plan, it’s just that part of that plan is to create chaos and the appearance of incoherence. We absolutely should keep that straight.
It’s also true that Trump’s orbit contains a lot of other useful idiots, but they are hangers-on, not who I would consider to be his handlers.
Of course it does take a certain kind of idiot to ever embrace fascism, but we can’t mistake that for incompetence.
They are stupid. It’s required for fascism to fascist.
It’s because they are stupid it makes them dangerous. They will say “NO I AM RIGHT!” when the obvious answer sits in front of them.
They JUST DON’T CARE.
Don’t give them credit for a “well thought our plan.” This regime will destroy itself, with or without resistance. Look at Putin’s Russia. When he dies, there will be a massive power struggle and no one knows what the fuck will happen.
We have far more to fear from stupid people than we do from evil people- Dietrich Bonhoeffer https://bigthink.com/thinking/bonhoeffers-theory-stupidity-evil/
They don’t want this guy to be free and doing a press tour about his experience.
Can’t release a dead body.
They really are stupid when it comes to undermining their own case, aren’t they?
No. They don’t care about “making a case”. They don’t have to. They don’t care if what they say is wrong or ridiculous–note how they were smirking as they said all the fake excuses in their press conference. They know they’re stupid fake excuses and they know everyone else knows it. They don’t care. They’re having a blast. They’re flaunting their power and daring anyone to try and stop them.
They have no case, besides “you can’t make me.”
Do they ever care? Just keep gaslighting.
The news can never catch up to all the atrocities happening simultaneously.
SCOTUS didn’t order his return. The ruling was that this is a foreign policy matter at this point and the executive branch has foreign policy power, not the court. SCOTUS rule that the Trump administration has to facilitate his return. Trump is willing to facilitate his return, but El Salvador said no, and that is the end of discussion for this matter.
Anyway, it would be ridiculously weird for El Salvador to send their own citizen to the US who initiated came to the US illegally.
There’s mischaracterisations, and then there’s just flat-out lies. You’re telling the latter.
(also, the sheer fucking irony of naming yourself “libertyforever” while cheerleading a system of life imprisonment without trial)
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The whole reason you put concentration camps in a foreign nation is to remove them from SCOTUS jurisdiction. Then you get to sit back and say, “We can’t compel a sovereign state,” while the sovereign state gets to sit back and say, “We’d gladly return these people, if only POTUS would ask.” Just one capo doing a favor for a fellow capo, somehow neither one of them able to do the right thing.
You want to talk about concentration camps? We’re already expanding our own Black Site.
America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The average maximum security prison holds 800-1200 prisoners. The largest, Angola, LA, holds over 8000.
Our most famous black site, Guantanamo Bay, located in CUBA (WTF?), currently holds about 120. They are now building a facility there, that will hold 30,000 prisoners. That’s nearly 4 times our largest prison, which is already about 8 times larger than average.
The question is: Who do they intend to put in that new facility, which is far from any oversight by the media or the courts. It’s in fucking Cuba, which is controlled by…well, you get it.
Gitmo is expensive, like $10M/prisoner/year expensive, and still at least nominally subject to US laws, though watered down by being a military facility. Outsourcing to El Salvador gets them massive cost savings and complete liberation from judicial oversight. They may still work on Gitmo, but I expect El Salvador to be the go-to camp now. Discount Gitmo. All they have to do is get you there - get you in the air to there - and you become a stateless, rights-less slave.
I suspect Gitmo will be reserved for the high profile prisoners that would cause too much outcry - celebrities, elected politicians, wealthy resistors, etc. The ones they don’t care about will go to El Salvador.
It was an administrative error. There is a valid deportation order for that man. There is also a withholding order which only applies to El Salvador. The only mistake in the deportation was the destination.
ICE already admitted the man was deported in error. So why are you making up stuff? These facts are easy to check, I can only assume you’re either a troll or a foreign agitator.
The Trump administration already admitted this was an administrative error. I said that as well. Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote.
There is no deportation order for him you buffoon otherwise ICE wouldn’t have confirmed he was deported in error. Do you think the admin error was thinking there was an error? How do you make those leaps in logic?
It’s MAGOO logic - feelings over facts. Even fucking CBS News has it straight.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-administrative-error-deporting-man-el-salvador-prison/
First, someone cannot be granted withholding of removal without having an order of removal. The immigration judge must first determine that the person is removable, and then the person can apply for withholding.
Second, the withholding of removal is limited to El Salvador, which means he can be deported to other countries.
As such, the error is the destination only
Do you have some sources for this? There’s so much emotional baggage with this its hard to get to the facts.
In my mind saying the only mistake is the destination Is an incredible understatement.
“The only issue with your heart transplant is we had a paperwork mixup and replaced your liver instead.”“I know you came in for just a vehicle safety inspection but our mechanics messed up and replaced your engine, here’s the bill.”
“We had a mix up at the hospital and the child you’ve raised for 3 years isn’t actually yours. Our bad, but there’s nothing we can do to fix it and there’s nothing we’re going to do to prevent it in the future. Good luck!”
Don’t downplay this shit and fall into dehumanizing others because they must have done something to deserve the position they are in. Don’t lose sight of empathy. Try pretending it’s a loved of yours. If one of mine fucked up and deserve punishment then fine, but there better be a fair trial and they deserve their chance to prove their innocence.
There is a valid and effective deportation order. For deportation purpose, there was no need to prove him guilty at the criminal court. If he was deported to another country, this would be completely in compliance.
You need to provide me exactly what you disagree with. Doesn’t make sense for me to provide you sources for every fact in this matter.
They’ve admitted there was an error, and are not being transparent in the extent of the error nor are they trying to correct the error. I dispute every fact in this matter because the main source I believe you are using are the people at fault for it. They aren’t even doing the common curtsey of an “internal investigation” reach around that typical police do after they’ve fuck us.
It doesn’t make sense that you wouldn’t throw out a couple random sources to your claims since it’s cut and dry in your mind. Show me the valid deportation order. Show me the evidence they used to forgo immigration court (why the fuck would he be in criminal court?) to have an expidited removal to a place a previous court said he could not go.
It’s easy to prove us stupid ass sheeple wrong, fucking do it…
I suppose you don’t have any direct evidence to support your argument either.
Do you think he’s gonna reward you if you lick his boots hard enough?
I was just stating the facts.
Just remember, when we get back on top, it might be you in that black site.
And your facts don’t align with the court’s decision.
Can you elaborate what exactly do you disagree with?
I’m amazed at how confidently wrong you are. Did you bother to read any of this yourself?
Yes, I read the ruling. Would you like to elaborate on what you disagree with me about?
The ruling says that any prisoners sent to El Salvador are still under US jurisdiction.
Go and read it this time.
This is not even a point of dispute. If El Salvador won’t return their own citizen, then it is what it is.
The reaction of these people to a senator traveling to another country to try to correct their admitted mistake is fucking disgusting.
I feel like the US is really not getting the memo here, this is fascist dictatorship swaddled in an American flag. This is what dictators do, the next steps are dismantling the other institutions and agencies that could potentially preserve the old country’s rules and laws. As they are already doing blatantly.
Guys… the US is falling. Why aren’t people organizing?
We have been. You may have heard of the 50501 protests. If not, I recommend looking into it. There are two problems though. First, the corporate media is largely not covering the protests because they haven’t turned into riots. As the adage goes, “if it bleeds, it leads”. Second, Americans are generally not inclined to riot, because our police are more heavily armed than a lot of military forces around the world. When we do riot, the corporate media clutches their pearls and wags their fingers, painting the entire movement as a bunch of criminals looking for a reason to loot. This influences even our most ardent allies in Congress to distance themselves from the movement, resulting in little to no change in policies.
Honestly, it’s going to take a lot more than protests and even riots to get out of this, if it’s even possible.
Their entire world view is based on a thick stack of lies. It’s lies all the way down.
Why has not a single reporter directly asked Trump or any of the administration what would happen if a US citizen were “accidentally” deported there?
Because they’ve took all the disloyal press off the register months ago. Only controlled journalists are allowed into the white house now.
Because they don’t want to be the US citizen in question.
They did ask this, and Trump explicitly said that they want to deport citizens. “Homegrowns” which he later clarified to mean “citizens”.
The most honest answer you would get is “Another one?”
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https://lemmy.world/post/28379743
Well, it might officially happen soon.
Make no mistake. Last time Trump got legitimately “thrown out of his palace” he called upon an army of insurrectionists to storm the capitol.
Now he’s back in there, surrounded by yes-men, and his insurrectionist army is pardoned and with boosted confidence that they can spread chaos without consequences. And by being POTUS many of his armed forces supporters have the “following orders” and “his elected authority” excuse to side with him against the remaining government branches and the people - even if their oath is to the constitution.
Whatever enforcement entity SCOTUS can get to impose actual consequences to this administration’s wrongdoing on April 23rd, if it comes to it, Trump won’t take it lying down. That’s a guarantee with these savages.
out of the loop european here, what’s happening on April 23rd
Pretty sure that is the deadline before criminal contempt of court charges are brought. (several people are supposed to be arrested and put in jail)
April 23rd will be the first day that his administrations charges for obstruction of justice are delayed / postponed because [made up reason so the judge doesn’t have to do their job].
Just like happened last time.
And the time before.
And the time before.
What @beernutz@lemmy.world said, pretty much.
European too here, though with a special interest in all of this since I’m one of the closest europeans to the US, living right in the middle of the Atlantic. 🙂
Jesus fucking Christ the people that write titles like this should all be rounded up and kept at least 1,000 feet from any place they could practice whatever this slop is they consider ‘journalism.’ The admin put out a few press conferences and encouraged people to make memes. “Scorched Earth” my dead grandfather’s rotten scrotum.
Also, that poor man is already dead and has been for a while now.
Any American citizen is now just lucky to not run across an ICE agent having a bad day and being sent to prison for life with no trial or rights, which we were supposed to hold self evident. This isn’t America anymore. We need to take MAGA and beat it down until it’s MANA, Make America Normal Again.
Some American citizens carry, so if a so called “ICE agent” happens to try to abduct the wrong one, without refusing to identify themselves; their day will surely get worse.
The family should be sueing the fuck out of every member of government for defamation. Get as much money from them while you can.
The courts have ordered the government to return him to the US, and they are refusing. What good is a court ordering the government to pay this family anything going to do?
I think this would work.
Wish I shared your confidence.
Sadly the injustice done to this man and the 70% to 90% of the people deported without having committed a crime is just a distraction while they plan their next financial rug pull.
The rot really has reached the core.
I think that’s only part of it. The really disturbing thing is that a significant number of his supporters actually want this and he needs to keep doing it to keep them on side.
I kind of assume they are so adamant of not returning this guy, cause they can’t find him in their death camp. He might have been killed already.
That is what I’ve been thinking. Guy has been dead from almost day one, and in fact that is likely the point of these prison camps.
They want to be able to disappear people, and it’s a lot more effort and money to keep them alive. El Salvador is just an off site extermination facility, and they are playing “Well, we can’t bring him back” cause they won’t admit what they have done.
He should check this mound
Garcia is alive and talked with the senator already.
My money is that they’re currently torturing him on the daily to send a message with his body when they eventually follow the courts order. They’re prepping the narrative with their supporters and making him an unreliable testifier for his own trauma.
He’s brown so the Troglodytes don’t think he’s a person.
It was not an error, they did this to flex their power
soy don regime cries about the boys hanging out
Van Hollen did the right thing and it should be recognized. It’s time to stand up to this fucking regime in any way we can.
at the same time they allowed A gop clown to visit the CECOT, to get a thumbs up and a photo op.
He had to know this was going to happen.
I’m just amazed at how incredibly ballsy it is for him to go down there knowing that doing so is basically kicking a hornet’s nest of entitled fascists that have already defined themselves by ignoring orders from the court.
Yeah it feels a bit like daring them to make the move and take the mask off. It takes balls and I’m all for it. Show America who we voted for, on both sides.
He’s just doing his job, and honoring the oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution. And for that we should applaud him, when many others have failed to do their jobs and uphold their oath.
Reminds me of the congressman who went down to Jones Town.
Hopefully this has a better outcome
