So I was browsing reddit out of boredom, and I saw a random post on the hoi4 subreddit and I clicked it without much thought. It was about Chinese players giving bad reviews to the game due to India getting cores for Tibet but not China. I clicked on it due to my masochistic desire to see if anyone else would recognize how stupid it was, and was sorely disappointed.
There were the usual ‘muh ccp’ jokes there, also shit about ‘west taiwan’ (ah yes ‘I understand history very well’), and then one guy who really caught my attention saying Chinese ‘people’ (savages) don’t matter because they speak a different language from ‘us’ (the civilized white people). Now granted that isn’t the most charitable interpretation, but… like… come on, this is reddit.
Shit like this makes my blood boil. Because libs will go, ‘oh we accept everyone!’ ‘we hate the government not the people!’ and drop the most disgusting garbage like this because they’re proud little pigs knowing how much propaganda they can fucking shove down their own throats and see an entire race as subhuman. I’ve always thought reeducation was better than punishment and that a lot of these folks are simply misguided, but jesus christ they’re not making it easy for me to suppress the desire to bind them to a rock with metal chains and beat their ribs to pieces with my bare fists and/or a metal bar while screaming “BEG FOR MERCY NOW YOU RACIST SHIT-FOR-BRAINS!”
It gets even more frustrating when it’s people you know in real life. I have a trans friend who generally has pretty good takes on stuff like palestine, disabled rights etc, but even he regurgitates the same shit from the state department and about how he’d ‘definitely kill xi if he got the chance.’
It’s so fucking tiring that these assholes can just turn the ‘counts as human’ switch on and off whenever they want for whatever race they want and suffer no consequences whatsoever. Really makes me wish I could Diver Down their screens and remind them of the weight of their words by bashing in their pale distorted sweaty reddit faces.
rant over.
We call Asian uncle toms “Chans”. The Asian Diaspora community has a huge problem with them, we try to call them out whenever we can. People like Ken Jeong are the worst offenders.
Ken Jeong is an Uncle Chan? I’m slightly surprised but also not surprised.
Why is he one?
when it’s people you think should be your friends it’s incredibly isolating. In the last 5ish years of increased sinophobia ive had both trans and asian friends who are “left” of democrats try to get me to affirm sinophobic stances (eg through jokes) and the sad thing is, this is the norm. most westerners can expect ABCs (and CBCs) to pop out with some assimilatory “I’m one of the good ones” signifier.
anyway as an ABC I’ve definitely noticed that the torchbearer of sinophobia is other chinese diaspora. I loathe it so much, but it’s definitely an avenue towards personal success, particular in careers related to media, writing, art, etc. white society audiences crave to hear their sinophobia affirmed through a chinese face. I dont even have to scrape the gunk on the bottom of the barrel, the whole “container” is just infested, like these are just two randos I found on goodreads (diaspora writing in english on topic of china) (1) (2). on the flip side, if you don’t give them that (sinophobia affirmed through a chinese face), and stay quiet or ambivalent on the topic of the mainland, well that’s the hard road of proving yourself through pure merit. on the worst end, if you as a chinese diaspora dare say that communist china is actually good for chinese people, you don’t get a platform, you get brushed aside and more or less forgotten. han suyin (who published in english) is out of print since the cold war ended and the nonaligned movement evaporated. meanwhile pearl s buck’s the good earth is still being taught as required reading in american high schools.
the torchbearer of sinophobia is other chinese diaspora
I’ve noticed this as well and it’s infuriating. Literally had one Chinese liberal in a group doing everything in their power to segue group conversations to some “China bad” topic. Always twisting the truth and selectively leaving stuff out, short of telling outright lies. Like one example: they grew up in China, so they know social credit score isn’t a thing, but still mentioned banning people from travelling first class om trains or something similar, with the underlying assumption that this is just one example of the “social credit score” because that’s what someone had mentioned previously. Or one time they said how they never got to vote in any election, conveniently leaving out the fact that they weren’t of voting age when living there (that came out later). Or another time they repeated all the tinyman square massacre crap. Also turns out their family is filthy rich but lost some due to some unspecified misfortunes with their businesses. Smells like classic gusano.
white society audiences crave to hear their sinophobia affirmed through a chinese face
This too, the westerners in that group love getting all their racist views confirmed by that Chinese person (who also made tons of racist blanket statements about Chinese people being this or that bad thing). They don’t even question it. They swallow the Yeonmi Park-level of bullshit immediately. And that Chinese person loves the attention they’re getting.
I thought this person was an outlier but sounds like they’re the norm.
It pisses me off that I’m able to change white people and other poc’s minds on China more easily than Chinese Diaspora. There is a reason why Hollywood only promotes self hating Chinese voices and the same goes for literature
and the media does this too. this is a very interesting observation.
What’s an ABC and CBC?
American born Chinese, China born Chinese
Canadian Born Chinese not china-born chinese (would just denote as chinese national or former chinese national)
is 华人 a pejorative term? in Mexico we call american born mexicans as pochos or chicanos, and its kind of pejorative.
no it is not demeaning, 华人 is like the widest net/semantic space with regard to “chinese person” (eg anyone who has chinese heritage, encompassing of any chinese ethnicity not just han, also encompassing any nationality). it’s standard/politically correct to say “海外华人” for overseas chinese
I don’t speak canto but this comes close? 竹升 afaik sometimes it’s used derogatorily (unsure of slur status) but i’ve also heard there’s some like reclamation of it idk (also I see that wikipedia thinks that “banana” is a Thing but I’ve literally never seen anyone call a bobalib “香蕉人” irl)
ah, I see. The chinese where I am sometimes say CBC though, but it’s likely different in Canada.
Thanks, great post gave me some things to read.
I know what you mean about what’s happened with Hoi4 lately, I’ve been browsing those posts myself, and you’re right that the usual racists and very “funny” jokes about China’s government were obviously present, but for the first time in years, I also noticed that a significant portion of people, maybe even half or possibly more, were very pragmatic and fair when discussing the subject matter, even going so far as to sympathize and agree with the chinese viewpoint. To my shock I even saw plenty who were outraged at the racist comments and confronted them (hell, it might have been you for all I know).
If you told me just a few years ago that this sort of thing would happen on a Gaming subreddit of all places I would not have believed you. So I think there is some progress being made, and I know it disturbed you to see those shitty people voice their shitty views, but don’t succumb to doomerism, the truth is currently taking hold, and more and more westerners are seeing it.
I’ve seen some of this too, although more on the vic3 subreddit. A lot of it is diluted with ultra garbage, but it’s encouraging.
To be fair, I wouldn’t exactly expect the people you find on the hoi4 subreddit to be best humanity has to offer.
yea i cant really understand why my relatively irrelevant country (mexico) has this deeply internalized sinophobia, it gets old quick having the same silly racist remarks whenever i bring up China in a conversation especially coming from “catholics”.
Catholics d6ear communism?
No but it is against Catholicism to be communist for a while, it has now been abrogated.
In 1949 Pius excommunicated a shitload of Catholics with Communist ties.
I can confirm this, I’m former catholic who recently left the church, don’t be surprised if an catholic online keeps bashing on communists, I’ve seen a catholic saying all leftist should have death penalty for “trying to kill 10% of population “ or whatever the hell this means, also the only argument catholic have against communism is “duh Most of Popes condemned socialism “ and further yap,
My grandparents are/were catholic, but I’ve turned them into hardcore communists, and my despite me being atheist, my grandma thinks that alot of communist ideals are far more inline with Christ’s teachings than anything the Church preaches
Pay taxes, feed, clothe, heal people, look after prisoners, be nice to people, otherwise myob. I see it.
Same here. What’s the point of human civilization/society, if it’s not to enjoy our lives, make sure everyone is taken care of, cause the least amount of harm possible, have fun, and uplift each other?
Seems like this is accurate ,l I’ve seen a lot of Christian’s Especially from Protestant and Anglican Churches Who are religious and Unironically Marxist-Leninist, something that gives me hope. I guess
I’m the biggest hater of religion and a staunch atheist. But I will admit that I have a modicrum of respect for liberation theology, and find it beautiful.
And I stan the fuck out of Hezbollah and Hamas and John Brown.
My family is very very anti-west, but most of my extended family has emigrated to the West and have been inundated with this funky anti-China shit (despite us being Chinese diaspora). It gets worse because a few of them are married to people who work in government of these Western countries, so they’re sure to be getting political knowledge from them.
I plan on having them go to China, because I have seen anecdotes of people being cured of their anti-China brain worms, or at least it plants the seed of doubt in their mind. But also I just kinda want to see their chud reactions, in awe that the supposed authoritarian state is literally 10x better.
I would really recommend them go to China! Shameless plug here but my home city Shenyang is a very good place to visit. Prices are very low there, and you can get a lot of places just using subway, bus, and taxi for places too far between stations. Even close to the city center I couldn’t see any poverty in places you’d expect like below bridges etc, the worse you’ll find is piss.
I would love to visit China, Vietnam.
Shanghai is my life’s dream. Chengdu might be the safer option. What’s your take?
If you mean safety as in physical safety, pretty much nowhere in China is unsafe by any means. I only went to Shanghai once long ago and not to Chengdu at all, so it depends on what you want to see.
Both cities are very safe, but I recommend Chengdu more than Shanghai. Cost of living in Shanghai is pretty insane, especially if you come from a 3rd world country with bad currency (tho sill better than many major cities in the west).
Chengdu is a lot more affordable if not cheap, from what I’ve seen of property prices. Also Shanghai is pretty hectic but I hear Chengdu is laidback, so that’s nicer. Also Chengdu has absolutely beautiful mountains.
Do you mind if I pm you and ask you questions? I’m very curious.
I’m aware of Chengdu’s reputation for being laid back and relaxing and probably a safer place to live.
But Shanghai feels so much more dynamic and interesting. That “New York City effect” is what I call it.
Sure
I can’t speak for the entirety of the USA but at least in my neck of the woods the odds of running into someone with anti-china sentiment is extremely high. I try my best to break through to my own family and the few friends I have but even the extremely few left wing people we have in this place struggle to break through the propaganda.
Y’all should free Tibet
Go ahead, go to Tibet and tell them they should return to being slaves again.
Even better, go to southern states in the US and say ‘Free The Confederacy!’ every time you see a black person, should be a riot.
The PLA already did free it from the rapey lamaists
This is the “freedom” you want to return to:
Religions have had a close relationship not only with violence but with economic exploitation. Indeed, it is often the economic exploitation that necessitates the violence. Such was the case with the Tibetan theocracy. Until 1959, when the Dalai Lama last presided over Tibet, most of the arable land was still organized into manorial estates worked by serfs. These estates were owned by two social groups: the rich secular landlords and the rich theocratic lamas. Even a writer sympathetic to the old order allows that “a great deal of real estate belonged to the monasteries, and most of them amassed great riches.” Much of the wealth was accumulated “through active participation in trade, commerce, and money lending.” …
The Tibetan serfs were something more than superstitious victims, blind to their own oppression. As we have seen, some ran away; others openly resisted, sometimes suffering dire consequences. In feudal Tibet, torture and mutilation–including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation–were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, and runaway or resistant serfs. Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: “When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion.” Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then “left to God” in the freezing night to die. “The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking,” concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet.
It is free. It no longer functions as a religious monarchy and literal slave society under Dalai Lama.
The “free tibet” thing has always been a joke considering what Tibet was pre-CPC rule.
Tibet is free since 1949 as a province of China
That’s not free.
was it free under the dalai lama feudal rule, an actual slave society?
He means like Libya or Iraq or Syria or Haiti or Grenada or a thousand other places the US has “freed”. All libs are racists and they are cowards that have to hide behind terms like free and democracy and blah blah blah. We shouldn’t entertain these facetious cowards anymore. Fuck these people. After 15 months of a genocide at least they should have the decency to shut the fuck up.
If Tibet isn’t free because it’s part of China then neither is any province, county, city, town etc. in any country ever. Guess we all ought to become anprims and do away with civilization altogether.
What’s your definition of a “free” Tibet?
One that is a puppet of the US, obviously.
yep
The “Free Tibet” movement advocates for Tibetan independence and human rights, opposing China’s control over Tibet since 1950. It emerged in the late 1980s after violent suppression of Tibetan protests and gained global attention through activism, celebrity support, and campaigns like those during the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The movement highlights issues such as cultural erasure, political repression, and human rights abuses in Tibet while supporting Tibetan self-determination, autonomy, or full independence from Chinese rule.
China has committed extensive human rights abuses in Tibet, including forced relocations, cultural suppression, and religious persecution. Tibetans face mass surveillance, arbitrary arrests, torture, and restrictions on speech and movement. Religious practices, especially Tibetan Buddhism, are tightly controlled, with bans on Dalai Lama worship and monastery evictions. Forced urbanization displaces rural Tibetans, eroding traditional lifestyles. Allegations include forced labor, sterilization, and organ harvesting. These actions aim to assimilate Tibetans and suppress their cultural identity under Chinese rule.
Chinese propoganda is gonna prevent Lemmy from going mainstream. This thread is wild.
So you want tibetans to go back to their traditional lifestyle? like being slaves of the dalai lama and other aristocrats?
Chat GPT post
also funny they think lemmygrad is/should be representative of lemmy as a whole and wish to become mainstream???
It’s so obvious it’s painful…
No need to think when you can just get a silcon valley billionaire to think the correct opinions for you.
Allegations include forced labor, sterilization, and organ harvesting
me when I reguiritate fascist cult propoganda from Falun Gong
Fun fact!
The people who came up with that bullshit think gay people or women cannot goto heaven!
Li Hongzhi taught that homosexuality makes one “unworthy of being human”, creates bad karma, and is comparable to organized crime.[91][92][93]: 285 He also taught that “disgusting homosexuality shows the dirty abnormal psychology of the gay who has lost his ability of reasoning”,[94][92] and that homosexuality is a “filthy, deviant state of mind”.[93]: 283 [32] Li additionally stated in a 1998 speech in Switzerland that the gods’ “first target of annihilation would be homosexuals”.[92][95][96] Although gay, lesbian, and bisexual people may practice Falun Gong, founder Li stated that they must “give up the bad conduct” of all same-sex sexual activity.[94][97][98]
This is who the AI bot you just scraped that bullshit from is sourcing shawn1122@lemm.ee and why you should do this thing called ‘read a book’
Oh no. not the mainstream. anything but that.
China does indeed need to free that part of China from western imperialist meddling, but that’s their business to work out. :) Who knows, maybe the US’s own meddling with its “USAID” already did some of the work for China on that front!
Xizang is always China.
you should beat your brains out against a rock (in minecraft)
I second this move.
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I don’t know if theyre bots or just chronically online brainwormed people or a combination of both, but honestly in the real world anti China sentiment isn’t nearly as strong as online spaces would lead you to believe.
You would be surprised. I had a piece of shit trying to lecture me on Chinese treatment of muslims the same afternoon the IOF killed 500 people in strike on a refugee camp.
The cool thing about imaginary genocides is that they can always be worse than real world genocides, because they are only limited by imagination.
This person is completely ignoring the flare of Uighur propaganda being used like a “gotcha” when it came to actual discussion from left-wingers on the Israeli genocide. I’m convinced they’re one of those “GOSH BRO, I’M SUCH A SUPER COOL STOIC” who believes all politics is dominated by brain-worms, doesn’t pay attention to them and has their bias reconfirmed in a loop.
South Park syndrome. Not a review of the show but rather its world view that caring about anything is not cool and everything is “gay” (the show’s derogatory use of the term, not mine) or whatever. Actually it is a review of the show, fuck it. Just surface level critique and stupid as shit at that.
I used to be a huge fan of South Park, up until the episode that portrayed China as having concentration camps
Same, ngl. But there are things I was able to enjoy before I learned that a lot of things that seem radical or whatever, really aren’t. I.e. the Chinese concentration camps is just bland liberal propaganda. As someone once said, the fact that they went to the Oscars wearing dresses isn’t rebellious because in the end they still went to the Oscars, they just also want to be perceived as rebels at the same time.
ehh i don’t know. from my own experience, i haven’t found a single person that speaks highly of china and chinese people in mexico 💀 its the same racists talking points always, “chinese are filthy” “cheating is in their blood” “if its chinese made its garbage”, are some things i regularly hear from my good catholic acquaintances. the west and western adjacent countries have very deeply internalized racism is almost insane
but all the best stuff is made in China
In the real world it is far more casual and internalized. It’s never a racist frothing at the mouth about people, it’s always just someone saying something ignorant that others people.
I wouldn’t say that frothing at the mouth racists don’t exist at all, but I definitely agree with your sentiment that much of racism is less visible than that.
Disagree, my local takeaways still get there windows panned in monthly with racial slurs put all over them referencing asian tropes + even bringing up china in a mildly positive way is enough for libs to try and socially ostracize you for not repeating their gestapo narratives on the Untermensch
Maybe it’s just because I’m a crackerburb cracker whose social circle comprises other crackerburb crackers, but in meatspace the opinions I’ve come across range from, at best, seeing the Chinese as backwards savages to, at worst, basically Satan.
No, it’s not just you. There’s plenty of people from all groups who believe China is either some world-conniving cabal or libs who think they’re authoritarian snakes trying to coopt democracy globally.
Somehow this person has not put together where those opinions or values may be coming from, especially when the government is literally out-loud saying they’re pouring money into “anti-china” propaganda.
I am not a cracker nor is my social circle mostly composed of crackers. A lot of muslims and nonmuslim brown and black people love cracker lib crocodile tears because they are very nourishing or because they are thoroughly assimilated into the middle and upper classes of america believe this shit. The fact that they can never be white like let’s say the Irish or Italian or lately zionists hasn’t revealed itself to them.
Are you for real saying this after watching the slew of “At What Cost” China bad articles and the profound impact they had on discussion relating to Chinese politics? From the same government that put millions into “Anti-China propaganda” specifically?
Or are you saying this after Filipinos and other SE asians are harassed in L.A, Florida and Texas? I’ll make sure to tell my partner that their problems are actually just made up by “chronically online brainwormed people”. Perhaps a combination of both, right?
It’s pretty common place. I know someone who worked in China decades ago who claims they can’t innovate because their people just don’t think correctly. I know people in the military who constantly talk about Chinese hacking and how if we’re not careful we’ll all be speaking Chinese after they invade us. It’s everywhere.
It’s funny hearing westerners project their own intentions onto China. You know for certain that if they had their way, they absolutely would force the Chinese to only speak English.
Hong kong is quite literally the example of this, they forced them into speaking english and enacted an aperthied against those who where from the mainland into HK as they did with South Africa.
I think it’s not as clumsy in the real world (most people aren’t redditors), but there’s still plenty of ambient negativity that is not even remotely challenged. A statement as benign as “the Chinese government is doing a lot of good things” will usually invite a bunch of the standard propaganda as pushback.
All the people I know have internalized sinophobia and russo phobia. It’s pathetic. One of them was born in the USSR and thinks russian are out to get her. Her family is russian, dog gammit!
I have been accused of being pro china because I was not jumping on the china bad bandwagon. My actual stance is that all organized states are bad and these people know it!
I guess being from Apartheidland (no, the one in africa was the copycat) and having no culture of its own but american propaganda movie is some sort of an explanation, of not an excuse.
But yeah, it’s anedoctally endemic to “liberal by default” people from my experience.
It depends, maybe you don’t experience it but I constantly hear that kind of garbage.
Maybe it’s where I’m from, but whenever people open their mouths about China here, they never have good things to say…
Try hanging out with fewer YT people.
I can promise you it is not only a YT thing; it is a majority YT thing for sure. Mexico is an example of this. When I lived in Florida, some of the most hostile opinions I came across about China was from Latin-Americans (specifically Nicaraguans and Puerto Ricans from what I’VE met, not sure if there is sociological basis to that in Nicaragua or Puerto Rico or just observer bias).
This was observed from my co-workers, some local work I did down there with IWW and bus-stop stranger talk. Most of it was just political talk but there was a few comments on my partner. (Yes, I talk about politics at a Florida bus-stop because I fucking hate myself)
My boss would NOT entertain anything nice to say about China, even passively. Also, I’m not saying there is an inherent racism amongst Nicaraguans and Puerto Ricans. Something sociologically was encouraging deep sinophobia and I’m curious on what it was. Or I just met some particularly sinophobic people in the area.
When I lived in Florida
if the us can be considered the stronghold of the petit bourgeoisie of the global south (gusanos), florida is their capital lol.
The only good thing about that place is the fact I met the love of my life there and the NASA museum is sick as hell.
That’s about it.
well you both found a needle in a haystack then!
(lets still nuke that place)
I agree. Honestly wish it could be made into a nature preserve; the state I mean. It really is beautiful when you don’t try to permanently inhabit it.
The CIA. They control ALL media. My dad was watching some show on Taiwanese television and the pundit was saying peace talks won’t stop Russia from invading Europe.
wtf? Operation mockingbird-ass pundit. Taiwan has ZERO reporters outside of Taiwan. I’ve never seen them air any Russian representative. News does not make money so it’s purpose is literally propaganda.
