I will be a bit vague with parts of this but hopefully this will be of interest to some of you. Apologies in advance that this might be more a list of disjointed thoughts than really a chronological recount.
I was born in the US and I am part of the Chinese diaspora. I haven’t been back since before covid.
I’ve mentioned this on a couple other parts of lemmygrad but I went on a trip that was funded by the chinese government, essentially a group tour around china. My one complaint is that 13+ museums in a 10 day span is… a bit much.
One thing I found interesting was the amount of communist imagery present. You’ll find it if you’re out and about on the city, or in the entrance of museums/parks if you’re looking for it. Especially the “Socialism Core Values” sign, I saw a ton of those signs. I know that because I was visiting I saw a ton more than I would in day to day life, and I don’t think it would feel too intrusive in day to day life, but it maybe felt slightly excessive to a visitor? I definitely prefer them than advertisements, like on Line 5 of the Chongqing Metro.
As for the cities, they were really nice. Really interestingly, though, because the second tier cities I was at developed later than for example Nanjing, the environment was a lot cleaner and modern than Nanjing actually. The cities are decently walkable, tons of metro/bus, didi(chinese uber) is incredibly cheap, and there are tons of public bikes/e-bikes to rent. Streets were clean of trash, tho the older places didn’t have trash per se, but rather gave a dirty vibe. The new parts of china are better than the US, and the old parts are worse. China is still definitely a developing country, which is sometimes easy to forget with how fast it’s developing.
On another note, the common sentiment i’ve heard is that 发展, development, has been really fast. This is obvious to even us from the west, but it’s really hard to think that there are people living from pre-解放(pre-1949, pre-liberation, pre-cpc? idk the best term to translate this), serfs, essentially, who have seen the country develop to this extent. For example, a taxi driver I was talking to on the way to a HSR station, mentioned that the district we were driving through was just barren dirt when he was a child.
The superiority of the socialist system is demonstrated, in the final analysis, by faster and greater development of those forces than under the capitalist system. As they develop, the people’s material and cultural life will constantly improve. One of our shortcomings after the founding of the People’s Republic was that we didn’t pay enough attention to developing the productive forces. Socialism means eliminating poverty. Pauperism is not socialism, still less communism …
- Deng Xiaoping
It was also really interesting to see things i’ve read about like, 绿水青山就是金山银山(i think it translates to lucid waters and lush mountains are invaluable assets?, it works a bit more poetically in chinese i swear). However seeing it in like the really pretty parks they’ve constructed is a lot different than just reading about it i think.
There still are definitely contradictions within china. One thing i’ve heard is the pressures of having to provide a house and car from the son’s family(tho the tradition varies by province and is better in some), housing prices, and not great state of the economy.
as for food - really good. i typically eat chinese food at home anyways so it was so great coming back to china eating-wise. Also there is this mountain in chongqing that is literally full of just hotpot restraints.
As for traditions, i think it can be a bit overbearing at times. 面子, face, and like gift culture is much too roundabout for my tastes. However, I do get a pass for when i don’t follow them because i’m a foreigner(it’d be even more if you were like white), but still I feel like it’s a bit much… mandatory gifts at every occasion makes it almost like less special to give gifts and also genuinely a burden to get gifts for everyone…
Prices - oh my god everything felt so cheap. Some of the best milk tea i’ve had for 20 yuan(3 bucks). didi(ubers) for like 10-20 yuan for like even a (10+) min ride. My friend got meituan(chinese doordash?) delivery for neck pillows right before his flight and it came same hour. Everyone uses QR codes here(!!), and there are portable chargers for rent everywhere. I’m not joking when i say everything is so much more convenient here. FRUIT IS SO CHEAP, my heart can’t take $6 watermelons at sams club after the prices in china… I don’t think people in china understand how bad it is in the west like living/convenience wise. I mentioned to a massage lady that the wage for a service worker is like 40k+ and they got so excited about that prospect because in china that would be a very large wage. However, because they’re considering china prices they don’t understand how hard it would be to live on that much because of how insane housing and cost of living prices are in america.
TO ADD ON, hotels are so cheap. Genuine 5 star hotel for $100, luxury chinese hotel for like $50 too. Like for rent you can actually star for multiple months in a nice chinese hotel.
Speaking of prices, qinghua(tsinghua uni), beida(peking uni), and other schools are less than 1k a year in tuition. what the hell. I’m going UMichigan in state and i’m still having to pay 20k in tuition. (I might study abroad next year next year in china, it’s crazy that the school is in top 5 in the world in engineering, above MIT and stanford for that category).
I swear the malls here are so much better. a random mall i went to in a second tier city was better than literally any mall i’ve been to in america. And look at this mall in chongqing(the pastries were so good, not too sweet)
And a mall in Xiamen had rock climbing, an art studio, indoor skiing(which idk how that works), a rentable kitchen space, and such good milk tea.
And finally, the HSR and metro experience.
Honestly, I don’t have many comments on the HSR, and I think that’s the biggest compliment I can give it. You go through security that’s really quick, wait for your train(unfortunately it was so jam packed i didn’t get a seat some of the time i’ve ridden it) then get on and you really don’t feel much when riding it. It’s quite quiet and not much vibration at all. The fact that it was so non-memorable makes it all the more impressive. Big cool station and trains and good smooth experience.
As for the metro, it was very nice a lot cleaner and more modern than the NY and toronto metros. The fare ranges from 1-7 yuan depending on how far you go, (0.15 cents to 1 dollar), and you can just scan a QR code on wechat to pay. ALSO they have different air conditioning depending on the car which is really cool. Full platform screen doors too(and not screen doors, but other barriers at elevated stations).
ya’ll should ever go back to china if you get the chance. The most unforunate part is that there are a lot less flights and they’re a lot more expensive post-covid. Your flight will probably be the most expensive part of your trip…
anyways that was a lot of yapping, i’m still a bit jet-lagged so i’ll end it here. feel free to ask any questions
Thanks for sharing! This mostly mirrors my own short experience in PRC (a short visit to Shanghai). Can’t wait for a chance to visit China again!
Nature, technology, buildings, culture, the museums, the people, just about everything is amazing.
Some problems I encountered as a non-Chinese person, and tips to overcome them, for anyone interested in visiting China to be ready for:
- Connecting to the Internet, even to Wi-Fi, requires verification with a Chinese SIM card. I didn’t care to get one in time so I was mostly offline for much of the time.
- Many people, especially older people, don’t know foreign languages, esp. English. You can use the great voice recognition translator in the AliPay app, but you need Internet for that.
- Don’t forget to bring an adaptor for the power outlets!
Also, for anyone who wants to buy theory books in PRC: unfortunately literature in foreign languages seems extremely scarce, since the vast majority of books is of course in Chinese. Only once did I find an English translation of Xi’s works.
my place for translated works https://www.purpleculture.net/central-compilation-and-translation-press-m-216/?sort=20
God I miss China. I got to live there for 5 months while teaching English, and the only thing I hated was my job and the other Americans. Insufferable libs to a man. Not being able to speak or understand Mandarin, I couldn’t make friends with the locals, sadly. There was this place I’d always eat. 14 yuan for a massive bowl of pork, peppers, and noodles. I think that’s, like… $2.
If I could go back and do a job I’d like, I’d take it in a heartbeat. Thank you for sharing your experience. It brings back good memories.
LOL. If possible my dream is get a job for an american company in China. The living environment is just better there. Sounds like a cool experience but it’s like after living in China and experiencing the light, how do you go back…
First thing I experienced coming back to the US was rudeness from airport security when I was trying to see where I needed to be screened for COVID, then finding out the US wasn’t doing shit about it (this was February 2020, mind you). Second thing I experienced was racism as white Americans loudly complained about the POC airport employees with accents.
I regret coming back a lot, lol.
Maybe we’re both just biased, but it’s crazy what you said about rude airport security because i swear that was the first thing i also noticed when getting back to the USA. Maybe they just hide it better in China, but i swear the workforce in the us is in a state of visible desperation. it’s really sad seeing alternative realities firsthand
One of the crew were nice and answered my question. Idk what factors are important, but the white security guy sitting down at the terminal refused to even listen to me as I tried to ask my question, demanding I keep moving. The Hispanic man working on some security railings smiled and kindly explained that the US wasn’t doing any COVID stuff when I asked him.
On that note, it was surreal coming back from China during COVID. The absolute shutdown Beijing was in as I left. Like, a week straight of near-empty metro, temperature checks, etc. Then get to the US, and they were like “Flight from China? Nah, you guys just come on in.” It was also jarring to see the narrative change from “China is super evil for locking down Wuhan” to “China is evil for letting COVID spread all over the world”. Honestly, coming back from China did more for my political development than any other single factor.
Thanks for sharing this!
not great state of the economy.
I have a question about this, how did you see this reflected in the things you saw? Did you get any insight into how it’s affecting day-to-day life? I’ve heard this plenty from Chinese liberals, but given their bias and all the “China collapse” stories that have been circulating for many years now, I’m always a bit skeptical.
Hm… the malls were more empty than you’d expect, except at like the super big places. I think the places locals would actually frequent and super big attractions still had a lot of people. I just remember this one mall in nanchang was mostly empty… And i’ve heard multiple people say the economy isn’t as great in non-political situations. It’s likely that the average citizen can feel that the economy isn’t as growing as fast as before, but I don’t ever hear “China Collapse,” no one would say that china would collapse I feel.
Ok, thanks for the reply. It does sound somewhat similar to what I’ve heard (empty shopping malls), but not quite as dire as others would make it seem. All I hear is the economy is so bad and people are unhappy and the government is struggling to keep order but it seems blown out of proportion since the arguments for this are always the real estate bubble and how empty the shopping malls are.
As somebody who came back 5 years ago also, the core socialist values campaign is new. In 2019 anti-terrorism promotion was everywhere, though my memory is pretty foggy since I was young back then.
Thank you for sharing! I’m curious how being a 华人 colored your experience. How did this trip inform your feeling of identity belonging to both your 祖国 and 美国? What’s your sense on how the broader 华人 americans / ABCs feel about the above?
Also, I totally agree about the malls. I’m not sure what percentile of people can actually afford it, but some of the shops were really creative. I loved that they were essentially selling themselves as arts and crafts centers, like you could fashion your own leather goods or paint things or make pottery. It felt like that sort of thing is much healthier for society within a consumerist culture.
Personally, I feel american in that I’ve absorbed a lot of parts of the culture, which I think there are parts that I prefer to chinese culture as i’ve kinda alluded to above, but I hold more national pride for China, personally. I cheer for China in the olympics, and personally am a lot more interested in Chinese history. I’m still not sure what I fully consider myself, maybe still chinese-american?
For most ABCs I feel that they either have a very negative perception of china, or a positive perception of china with a negative perception of china. The people who were with me on the camp pretty unilaterally would be against the chinese government(no democracy, etc…) but they could just feel that the environment was just better I think.
Hmm… For example the rock climbing place I went to was a bit cheaper than the rock climbing place I usually go to(and a lot smaller) in absolute terms, but relatively it would be much more expensive. I couldn’t tell you about the skiing, baking, or art studio though. My guesses is that they’d be pretty expensive for regular people. In addition, my cousin said that most locals don’t frequent the super big chongqing mall that i showed, but rather just go to smaller local shops as while it’s not unaffordable, it’s just much more cost effective to buy things elsewhere.
Thanks for taking the time to write out a response, your insights are really valuable!
As a Chinese-American, sadly I can confirm that in my experience, most Chinese-Americans are pretty brainwashed by Western propaganda and hate/are ashamed of China or being Chinese at some level. Personally, I love and support China and the government but I’m afraid to openly admit that. Once I just simply said “I got friends in China” and a (History) teacher whipped his head around and screamed “WHAT!?!” And gave me the most evil glare. I’ve had a college professor literally tell the class that Chinese people have no concept of love.
I don’t know how internalized the propaganda actually is for Chinese Americans, or if they’re just simply afraid of vocalizing support of an “enemy” country while knowing that every person surrounding you has an insane irrational hatred of China and all chinese people and literally want blood.
Hmm, i feel like most abc believe china to be really nice environment wise like rest of asia but dislike the government. memes like social credit are pretty common. It’s never to the point of demonizing chinese people, i would say the most common stance is support for the people but not the government.
Damn, a hotel in China is cheaper than my rent.
right? it’s mind blowing to me how cheap everything is in comparison. The most expensive part about my trip was my plane ticket… hopefully it goes down to precovid prices.
I wanted to ask someone with experience; with the state of their modern rail-system/public transport how fast and how expensive would it be for one to travel from a city like Ningbo or Tianjin and reach the other side of the country, somewhere in Xizang for example?
I spot checked this on 携程 for you. if you wanted to, for example, go from Harbin to Kunming, it would cost you about 400 RMB ($50) and take about 1.5-2 days with 1 transfer, which is comparable to going from LA to DC, or from Barcelona to Moscow. It’s a similar story from Hangzhou to Urumqi. You’re probably better off taking a flight for that distance. Where the system really starts to shine is for something like Beijing to Shenzen, which costs 1000 RMB ($110) and takes about 8 hours, direct, which is equivalent from brussels to kiev, or from miami to nyc. Even then, that distance is about the limit of “worth it on HSR”. The best is when you’re going inter-city within a region. It’s also amazing because there’s no surge pricing/gouging, so you can buy last-minute tickets at the same prices as long as they’re available still.
Thank you! Even though a flight is better, that is still a decent price. A plane trip from DC to LA can be more expensive depending on the trip.
Sure thing. I think trip.com is the english version that you can check other routes for. It is super cheap. I think the harbin-kunming and hangzhou-urumqi routes i mentioned are also not high speed rail, but i’m not sure. I think the capability to run HSR on those routes exists, but seems like i’m not able to find those tickets, in which case it would be much faster.
Sounds amazing! Thanks for sharing.
Nice… I hope I’d learn some Chinese or something, to be able to go there…
Lol there is “birthright” for 华人? Anyways thanks for sharing your experiences!
Based on what I’ve read there doing lots of trips with different themes for any Americans under 40.
“I’ve mentioned this on a couple other parts of lemmygrad but I went on a trip that was funded by the chinese government, essentially a group tour around china. My one complaint is that 13+ museums in a 10 day span is… a bit much.”
Yeah, I can imagine.
I too have been going through a lot of vacations lately in the past few years and they were all… rushed.
“One thing I found interesting was the amount of communist imagery present. You’ll find it if you’re out and about on the city, or in the entrance of museums/parks if you’re looking for it. Especially the “Socialism Core Values” sign, I saw a ton of those signs. I know that because I was visiting I saw a ton more than I would in day to day life, and I don’t think it would feel too intrusive in day to day life, but it maybe felt slightly excessive to a visitor? I definitely prefer them than advertisements, like on Line 5 of the Chongqing Metro.”
Love to see it!
“It was also really interesting to see things i’ve read about like, 绿水青山就是金山银山(i think it translates to lucid waters and lush mountains are invaluable assets?, it works a bit more poetically in chinese i swear). However seeing it in like the really pretty parks they’ve constructed is a lot different than just reading about it i think.”
We have nothing really like that slogan here in the USA…
“anyways that was a lot of yapping, i’m still a bit jet-lagged so i’ll end it here. feel free to ask any questions”
Have you brought back any theoretical books at all? Those not translated into English so you can read them yourself?
Not much to say on my part; I have more questions than comments, tbh, though I’m still gathering my thoughts.
I have a friend named “Zoro” on Discord who is in China (on the Second Thought server) or just came back from an extensive trip.
No, I tried buying mao’s little red book but I couldn’t really find it. That being said I didn’t really look for it. My chinese is not good enough to read theory in it, so just reading translations for now. I did see multiple copies of Xi’s book though.
Yes, i’ve talked in the “Zoro in china” thread on the second thought discord.
Ah nice!
I haven’t been there in a few days; I was going to check back after reading your thread!
My desire to visit grows every day
ya’ll should ever go back to china if you get the chance
While I’m just a cracker in Burgerland, this was neat to read about. It would be cool to visit China someday and it sounds like you had a great experience (although I’d probably want to be able to speak some Chinese lol)
LOL yes it would probably be a lot better experience with some chinese knowledge. Also if you can somehow meet a chinese person and have them show you around(maybe try a language exchange idk), that would be cool too.
Thank you for sharing, this was very interesting to read!
And yeah, 13 museums in 10 days sounds like too much, but i suppose it depends on how big the museums are… I’d say the optimal amount would be one museum every two days, so you have time to really absorb everything and also do something else in between the museum days to keep it varied.
This looks like a rad trip, thx comrade. Makes me really want to go to chongqing.
One question: how difficult is it to get to hiking / nature destinations (at least in the areas you know)? Are there bus lines that go to those type places, or do you have to use didi / rent a car?
Depends on what you’re looking for. Zhangjiajie, Huashan, some Great Wall scenic areas, and other famous sights are definitely reachable via train + didi or bus. However, the Chinese idea of hiking is a little different: most sights are highly developed with stairs, paved paths, trams, temples, shrines, and snack bars throughout. The more popular ones can be extremely crowded like OP mentioned, especially during Chinese holidays.
If you wanted for example to fuck off to somewhere more “pristine” the altai mountains in Xinjiang, that’s much harder chiefly because China does not accept intl driver’s licenses (apparently you can get a permit but you have to go through local offices). Beyond that barrier I’m not sure what else it would take to go on a western-style camping trip.
Hmm… another comrade might be able to answer this better.
For the mountain that my grandparents have a home near chongqing, we took a 40 minute train ride and then rented a car and drove for like an hour and a half. It wouldn’t be a place that you would really go without like knowing someone who lives there tho…
Another option is like Zhangjiajie, the avatar mountains but they’re super busy i hear. For green space there is a ton throughout the city, but if you really want like a hike/nature destination i wouldn’t know enough to answer.
