Neuralink’s human trials volunteers ‘should have serious concerns,’ say medical experts::A medical ethics committee responded to Elon Musk’s brain-interface startup issuing an open call for patients yesterday.
Anyone doing anything with Elon Musk should have serious concerns.
Are you sure? Reality check time. If Tesla gave you a job offer that’s in your field and the wage is at least 20k what you are making or over the industry avg. would you put aside your morals and take the offer?
Where did you get the idea Tesla pays above market rates for any role? They’re notorious for hiring fresh college grads and just burning them out. And that’s on the software side, the people building the actual cars have it even worse.
No, don’t you see, in an impossible hypothetical situation, they assume you’d do something against your stated values. You’ve been pwned by a person of logic and intellect, I’m afraid. I’m sorry, but you agree with them now.
This is correct, Tesla is known for underpaying
Maybe things have changed but for a while Elons companies paid very well for engineering/technical staff, as in solid six figures fresh out of school. Of course the only reason they paid that much was that they expected 80+ hour weeks
I said if. Would you take the offer
I’d choose being paid less over working for a bipolar narcissist who fires people at the drop of a hat. But again, it’s not a choice I’d have to make as I pointed out above.
Absolutely not. I wouldn’t work for the Heritage Foundation for any price either. Maybe money can control you, but it doesn’t control me. I’d rather be poor than hate myself.
$20k isn’t going to make you rich anyway
If Tesla offered me $200k over maybe I’d think about it
AH HA HA HA HA
20K above average? Not a chance in hell. For all the reports of how shitty the work environment is at ALL of his companies, coupled with the constant need to push far past whats ethical, or in some cases even legal… no.
Fuck no.
Not a chance in hell.
Now, throw me 500% of the average and maybe we’ll talk. But You’d only get a year from me. Two tops. Just enough to pay off my bills. Then I’m gonna tell you to fuck off.
No.
Lol 20k. tell me you’re a musk cuck without… you know the rest.
Tesla doesn’t pay more than other places, so I feel like this person just doesn’t make much money and $20k is a huge differential to their hourly wage. Otherwise why not choose another arbitrary number like $50k?
At the scales of wages for engineers, project managers, etc, powering these companies, somebody in those positions would be be using a percentage.
20k is 5-15% wage over average wages for most of those job roles and that’s easy to find competing offers for and not sell yourself out to overwork yourself if you qualified anyways.
Even if you did take the money, you just described a scenario in which you do have serious concerns. Ones you’ve ignored.
Oh, sweet soul. You just revealed to the world that you yourself lack any kind of morals, maybe you should work for Musk.
Hey! Don’t talk to them like that! It might be that they don’t have any self respect or are just a trash human being
Lol i just find it interesting. I asked the same question in a meta thread and over there, majority said they would take the offer!
Software engineer here. I’ve literally had to make that choice. The answer was no. He treats his workers like shit, underpays a ton compared to the industry standard, and constantly engages in union busting
Even without the moral issues I wouldn’t work for him.
No.
It’s not about morals, it’s about work life balance and not having the risk of being illegally fired for no reason.
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Tesla under pays compared to other car companies.
Lmao, I’m a public servant and a developer. I make that choice every year.
Absolutely not.
No. I routinely turn down offers of 80% increase to go work for companies like Palantir, Raytheon, etc… Fuck that noise.
I mean we’re talking about Tesla opening a marketing department and me running it from scratch, you’d have to at least triple the industry average as I would likely be working 16 hour days.
Sometimes you gotta weigh job security and a tolerable work environment into the mix. Working for Musk doesn’t seem low-stress.
Tolerable work environment is at the top of my list. If I were to even consider working at an intolerable business, I would need to be paid enough to retire after a year. We have made it so that work is life, and also now retirement is very uncertain for most young people. There’s no way I’m gonna take an intolerable job that will go on indefinitely.
Have you never heard of work/life balance?
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Yeah, I mean we’ve been working on brain implants of various stripes for a couple decades now, and they’re not the first to attempt motor cortex implants for paralyzed patients as a method to begin human trials, but the current state of the art for brain implants is honestly pretty… primitive. There’s no good way to avoid damaging neurons, so it’s mainly a focus on not causing too much damage while fine mapping and targeting has to be done on an individual basis.
Implants are hugely useful, and arguably the current state of the art treatment for several conditions (epilepsy and parkinsons), but we’re so far out from computer brain interfaces being useful for anything outside of dire medical needs that it’s kinda surprising they’re pushing ahead when they had so much trouble with their experimental subjects.
I worked in a brain imaging lab in college, and we had a couple of chimpanzees with brain implants that did daily research protocols. Bastards were better than me at the testing regimen, and other than some minor discomfort (water intake is restricted prior to the tests so that the gatorade reward was more attractive), they were large children that could tear your face off if they got angry. Once they got older, they would have surgery to remove the implants and retire to a primate ranch where they just got to live out the rest of their life. All of the grad students there had been working with the same chimps for years, so it’s a little alarming Neuralink had so many issues.
It doesn’t exactly engender confidence.
What’s really sad is hearing how they treated them. Considering how intelligent they are, I find it disgusting that they treated them so bad they all died. It’s not worth a bunch of sentient creatures lives to do experiments like this and then just throw them away.
At least your lab was treating them with dignity.
Yeah, in academia getting approval for primate research projects is a huge process where you need to clarify every aspect of the protocol, housing, care, and experimental operations to submit before the project can start. I’m less sure if it’s voluntary or required, but we had funding allocated for their retirement from the start. They’re smart enough and strong enough that I’d be terrified to work with unhappy and unwell primates.
Not that all research projects are have happy endings, but I don’t think corporate research has the same restrictions and oversight that academic research does, given that this even happened. I’m pretty accepting of the necessity of primate research models, but we should be doing everything we can to treat them as best we can. Withdrawing a subject from the experimental protocol should be preferred over letting an infection fester just because the implant is in the way. Just seems really poorly done on their part.
If it makes you feel any better, they’d treat humans the same way if they could.
Not really. I know people have done some crazy despicable experiments during wartime, so not surprising people are willing to do it if allowed.
I’m going to go ahead and not have something with the build quality of a Tesla attached to my brain, thanks.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/
You could then just run over kids in strollers and blame the Tesla chip in your head.
Finally! A way to fake senility without needing to wait so long
I just use copious amount of Jameson’s for that purpose.
Beep, beep, motherfuckers.
I’m not dumb enough to be interested in a first generation brain implant, but surely someone is.
That being said the car thing is a bunch of bullshit. Separate OTA software patches from physical drive-the-car-to-a-dealership recalls and get back to me on the real “recall” count.
I’m not really interested in driving a full electric car (hybrids seem to be the sweet spot until we find better batteries) but people cling to arbitrary metrics for all kinds of criticism in a red vs blue or console war fashion to proclaim why their chosen product is better. It’s so asinine. All of the electronic systems in modern cars have issues because all software has issues. The ones that are the worst are the ones with no OTA patching, of which there are many.
Didn’t Neuralink fail animal testing? Something about most of their monkeys dying from the trials? How did this get to human testing?
Kinda like how Elon promised a mars colony by 3 years ago, and his big rocket exploded on its first flight a few months ago.
Or how full self driving has been ready “next year” for the passed 5 years.
Hyperloop was going to revolutionize transportation, by having a train in a vacuum tunnel, and is currently an abandoned tube in the desert.
The boring company was going to create high speed car tunnels under cities, and it’s test track is a 30mph traffic jam, but now underground.
Solar city was going to put solar tiles in place of your shingles and offset your power usage, but the demo musk showed was an actual fraud, and there were no solar panels.
Last but not least, spaceX promised “rapidly reusable rockets” with a 10x decrease in cost to low earth orbit. The fastest turn around they’ve ever had was a month or so, about as long as the space shuttles’ fastest turn around. The falcon 9 still costs between 50 to 60 million per launch, even if it’s a reused booster or not, and the space shuttle was capable of taking crew and cargo/payload at the same time, while the falcon can only take one or the other.
Musk companies have a long history of promising the moon and delivering playground sand. Don’t buy any of his products and don’t fall for his “saving humanity” bullshit. He’s just a conman who’s defrauding investors for billions.
Musk has since come out and all but stated Hyperloop was specifically funded and hyped ONLY to kill mass transit initiatives in the area. It was a total vaporware project, they never intended to solve anything.
To be fair, SpaceX cost of 50-60 million per launch is almost a 10x drop in price, ULA is around 400-500 million per rocket. And since they have next to no competition on price, they have no incentive to lower it. It’s just business.
And don’t bring the broken vehicle the shuttle turned out to be into this. A great vehicle on paper, but with to many cooks. The shuttle era gave us the ISS, but is cost us almost all activity outside of LEO.
Yeah, I agree with all of their points except for SpaceX, which has been an unequivocal success that doesn’t deserve to be painted with the same brush Elon is. They revolutionized space flight, broke into the national security launch industry that was entirely captured by the United Launch alliance, and stand to obsolete the (93 billion dollar!) Space Launch System the moment the Starship is approved for commercial launches.
Dozens of Falcon 9’s exploded while testing them and especially while attempting to land and reuse boosters, so the Starship failure was all but expected. I hate Elon Musk too, but SpaceX is arguably the most successful aerospace company at the moment. Were NASA allowed full control of their money, I think it’d be better, but as it is the viability of many of their future projects hinges on SpaceX.
SpaceX becomes NASA’s second-largest vendor, surpassing Boeing
NASA obligated $2.04 billion to SpaceX in fiscal year 2022.
SpaceX’s Starlink satellites are about to ruin stargazing for everyone
With the naked eye, stargazing from a dark-sky location allows you to see about 4,500 stars. From a typical suburban location, you can see about 400. Simulations show that from 52 degrees north (the latitude of both Saskatoon and London, U.K.) hundreds of Starlinks will be visible for a couple of hours after sunset and before sunrise (comparable to the number of visible stars) and dozens of these will be visible all night during the summer months.
Boondoggle
There an article in Wired just this week I think about how horrid the experiments on the animal were.
Musk, of course, lied again saying the monkeys were old and going to be euthanized anyway. They were young, and the experiments were terrible for them — where they were clawing at their heads trying to remove the devices. Some had literal screws coming loose.
Reading this story I decided to boycott everything related to Elon Musk.
Additional veterinary reports show the condition of a female monkey called “Animal 15” during the months leading up to her death in March 2019. Days after her implant surgery, she began to press her head against the floor for no apparent reason; a symptom of pain or infection, the records say. Staff observed that though she was uncomfortable, picking and pulling at her implant until it bled, she would often lie at the foot of her cage and spend time holding hands with her roommate.
Animal 15 began to lose coordination, and staff observed that she would shake uncontrollably when she saw lab workers. Her condition deteriorated for months until the staff finally euthanized her. A necropsy report indicates that she had bleeding in her brain and that the Neuralink implants left parts of her cerebral cortex “focally tattered.”
Thanks for this. Never buying anything of his now
And Animal 15 was still smarter than charlie kirk
Neural link did not “fail” animal testing. It got FDA approval which actually means animal testing was a success.
I imagine advertisements being streamed into the user’s dreams, turning them into remote controlled zombies and causing mental breakdowns.
Can’t wait to need an ad blocker in my brain.
Should I go with NeuroFirefox or NeuroPihole?
Neurofox and neuroblock origin
Just rip the cables off your brain, go back to monke.
That’s a good Futurama episode! Oh wait
Sounds like a black mirror episode - if it weren’t actually possible reality…
“Your subscription is about to expire. Serotonin and dopamine will be blocked until you renew it. Please, select automatic renewal to avoid unwanted depression or suicide. Thanks for choosing our services. Fuck you.”
Or maybe they become little Elon copies
This is a publicity stunt to get more funding. They are going to get some volunteers, but they won’t ever get the implants. Neuralink will just keep delaying the procedure by a year and then cancel it once the public stops paying attention.
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I don’t see Neuralink taking the legal risk, regardless of what the FDA says. The approval is part of the publicity stunt IMO.
I don’t think they’d care about the legal risk from people who’d sign up. However it’d be pretty bad publicity having them all die
Hey now, that’s not fair. Some of them might just end up paralyzed or brain dead.
Hey dumbshit, I just wanted to drop by and let you know you were so wrong and it only took a few months to prove you wrong.
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/30/1227850900/elon-musk-neuralink-implant-clinical-trial
I think you are hating simply because musk, they have FDA approval. People are going to get this implant in their brain, and if I remember I’ll come back here and send you a message that you were wrong when it happens.
Did you see the article about what they did to those monkeys?
Any human that allows this half-baked shit near them in it’s current state should be terrified.
They only said people would get the implants, not that they would survive. If they have FDA approval, I’m afraid the previous poster may be correct.
No, what did they do to them?
Warning: animal suffering.
I’ll let someone else link it, or I’m sure you can easily find it if you search Google News. Just a warning though, is awful to read.
I’m with the other guy, I’m not reading that again, but I remember it was on the verge if that helps.
I came back to this thread to prove op wrong, because I was right. Yes some poor monkies got killed but that’s because it was a half baked device, it’s sort of impossible to skip the half baked step when developing a complex device.
Now that they are in the human stages hopefully it’s well passed half baked and into the good beta device range. Like I originally said all you guys are just hating on musk and shitting on companies he runs that are legitimately cool and doing good things for the world.
Shit on Twitter all you want, that place is ass though
So you’re worried the implant will affect your memory. Got it.
FDA approval ain’t evidence that something is safe. See the recent approvals for anti-Alzheimers meds that have a terrible side-effect to benefit ratio.
For sure, that’s what the testing is for. Now that a device has been put in a human it will be determined if it’s safe over many years and trials.
If something is dangerous in animal testing, it shouldn’t reach humans. The FDA is toothless (due to underfunding and regulatory capture).
Neuralink will have all participants sign a waiver stating they know about the risks of death, etc etc. People will just sign and ignore all that because Elon!
Never mind that he’s an incompetent scammer.
Maybe we should force the participants to go on an exploration trip to the Titanic before they can join…
Waivers can’t totally exonerate someone from all harm caused
Want to use your senses? Pay a small fee…
Motor functions only $299 for the first three months**
Otherwise known as Neuralink Blue.
We’ve changed our ToS, you are no longer entitled to breathing or heartbeats for free.
I think Elon should go first
Mark Zuckerberg was surprised that all those dumb fucks trusted him with Facebook, and Elon must be thinking the same right about now.
I guess we never run out of stupid people.
Don’t know if they’re stupid, but probably misled and very desperate enough to bet on an invasive experimental treatment messing with your brain from ‘some guy’ with ‘good enough publicity’.
I hope they all read about Animal 15 before actually agreeing.
Should but if musk fans want to put their brains in the hands of right-wing moron that’s running his companies into the ground, week who am I to argue with their logic.
Natural selection at work
An aside, it’s so fucking easy to become a right wing idol. You literally just say the talking points and now you’re part of the gang! It literally is that easy.
If Mr. X is so confident in Neuralink he should be first in line.
Lol they aren’t the type have ‘concerns’ . They would get in the bus to Mars TOMORROW.
I wanna posit an extension to Dunning Kruger - something that describes the phenomena whereby rational, moderately educated individuals don’t really understand the full potential of Maximum Stupid
Darn, a Musk article got through my anti Twitter, anti Musk Sync for Lemmy filter. Time to ass Neuralink to it.
Ifs been glorious weeks since I saw Musk on Lemmy.
idk man his stupid face always makes me happy
gotta tighten up those filters homie. musk talk is brain-rotting
I won’t even consider investing until “The Man Himself” gets one.
