Bluesky managed to go offline practically entirely. I count on you folks to spork the hell out of this.
See also here.
In fairness they’re still rolling out their federation.
Individuals can host their own servers with limited users (10 I think?). The Guardian seems to have launched one judging by their new account @theguadian.com launched today.
And they’re using an open prptocol, with a promise to transfer it to an independent standards body in the near future. Also Jack Dorsey no longer has anything to do with it which is another good sign.
Can I have the documentation? I believe you I just haven’t found it myself (I’m bad at looking things up)
I’d be interested in self hosting my own Bluesky server if this is the case, maybe I could bridge it to my Misskey Server
At this point, anything that hurts Twitter is good. Bluesky may go down in two years, but if twitter dies in one, I’ll be happy. People need to learn to jump platforms again.
Yeah, competition, even if a little, is still good.
Sorry, Lemmy.world and Lemmy.ml were down for maintenance again. You were saying?
I think I would mainly notice because my whole feed would be wholesome, supportive, and funny.
Lemmy.world is fine, as for lemmy.ml…
Fuck you
/s
I have them both blocked, so yeah, they aren’t that important at all.
i can understand blocking .ml, whats wrong with .world though?
They have “power users” that mod multiples of the largest communities and will delete comments of they disagree with your opinion, citing “civility” or other nonsense, even when you’re repeating back exactly what was said to you. So, yeah, abusive moderation.
I’m actually a big fan of the misinformation moderating they’re doing on world. It’s very Lemmy.ml of them in trying to maintain their political correctness.
Idk I once said something and they banned my comment for misinformation. Granted, I didn’t post a source, but a quick search just proved my point. Which makes me wonder wth is their way to prove something is misinformation?
Oh I was being sarcastic for sure.
I certainly want spreading misinformation, but I’m glad you’re enjoying yourself on world.
Purely anecdotal but… the 3 stupidest people I’ve ever met online were all from .world - and there seems to be a propensity for deleting comments that go against their world view. Only knowingly interacted with one .ml poster and they were perfectly decent.
Look at this social butterfly who’s interacted with 3 people
Well, I mean, they might’ve been bots I suppose. Perhaps I’m still an asocial caterpillar but don’t know it…
the 3 stupidest people I’ve ever met online were all from .world
That’s a Hell of a claim!
I know, seems wild… To clarify the statement I should have said “interacted with” as opposed to “met”. I’m not on many platforms though - no FB, insta, bebo, friends reunited, the old bird site etc. I used to interact on another site, forget what it was called, maybe Robbit or something like that. I’m on Mastodon but I have a different personality there and don’t use it for posting anyway.
I have a feeling that a few/many/lot of .world users have a very simplistic and binary view of the world where they can’t see that some issues are multifaceted and you can’t just throw out blanket statements. There also seems to be an issue with some people where they don’t/can’t differentiate between opinions versus facts. Opinions are personal whilst facts are (hopefully) empirical.
Rant over.
I’m not on many platforms though - no FB, insta, bebo, friends reunited, the old bird site etc.
I guessed you weren’t on Facebook or Xitter as they’re full of idiots.
There also seems to be an issue with some people where they don’t/can’t differentiate between opinions versus facts.
Wait until you try sarcasm!
Can they do it again please?
And the fact that I had no idea kinda disproves your point. I am browsing Lemmy a lot.
The joke is that most of lemmycels are on lemmy.world and lemmy.ml. Not that these instances literally went down.
Because most of the communities are on those 2 instances. In terms of userbase world does have the most users, but they’re the exception as other “big” instances are more evenly split.
So instead of a single instance going down we have 2 main instances that need to go down, and even if they go down we’d have lemmee, shitjustworks, lemmyca and blahaj (and I guess also lemmynsfw) communities feeding the feed.
I could absolutely cruise games and memes on shit just works for a day if other instances are down
(and db0 for the fun stuff, gosh)
Lemm.ee represent
I agree, having multiple main instance is better than what we had. Also thank you for reminding me lemmynsfw, time for donating.
lemmycels
🤢🤮
No idea what a lemmycel is or what that would have to do with bluesky
Slur for lemmy users like redditor for reddit users.
Aren’t we lemmings?
Oh, but ey wanted to be edgy and offensive
Caught a lemmycel
We are. Just incel lemmings, I guess?
UNITE
deleted by creator
Please don’t explain my joke. Just let it woosh over them.
And here I have a lemmy.world account because I’m not sure my own instance is that solid 🤕😥
Shit doesn’t work
Who?
Ah, shit.
bluesky is more federated than threads, but less federated than mastodon. As I understand it, you can more or less host your own bluesky “instance”. Though it is difficult to do and some parts you have to build yourself, it is technically doable. This is not the case on threads, I believe.
Except Threads is on ActivityPub so is an instance in the Fediverse.
I’ve recently read about that myself. But hosting anything Bluesky-related yourself is horrendously expensive because you need absolute monster servers with terabytes of disc space. Not to mention Bluesky’s convoluted architecture.
Based on https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/14/24296537/bluesky-acting-up-outage-down it was down for 15-30 minutes and for some it was just read-only.
Lemmy instances regularly go down for maintenance longer than this.
Twitter used to regularly “fail whale” and in the long run no one cares.
Yes, decentralizing is a good thing. Yes, it’s fun to poke at BlueSky. But in the long run if you have a product that people want to use then they’ll put up with a lot of crap/downtime.
The point is that bluesky has no interest in being actually decentralized, it’s just a gimmick
Yeah because decentralization is just a gimmick. It sounds cool on paper, but in reality it doesn’t solve many problems - it just introduces many others. The only situation where it helps is if an instance goes down permanently, and even then it’s not that helpful.
Decentralization greatly decreases vendor lock-in, lessens the damage of a single actor and adds competition. These are serious long-term benefits for a service and its users.
There’s a reason why something like email is still around and being innovated on 40 years later, while its proprietary competitors are long since dead. And it’s not that the technology is very good.
Bluesky is just another ICQ/AIM/Slashdot/Digg, a little walled garden that will eventually be ran into the ground. Which is fine. The issue is that it’s trying to embrace and extinguish the fediverse by pretending to be decentralized.
There’s a reason why something like email is still around and being innovated on 40 years later, while its proprietary competitors are long since dead.
Can you tell me more about those competitors? I did a quick google search but could not find anything tangible
Yes, but there is a huge difference between email and social media - namely the community. You don’t have that in email, so changing a provider is as simple as “my email now says @gmail.com”. For social media, you need to “migrate” an entire group of people and the content that was present on a doomed instance. Which never happens. It’s never seamless, it’s always the “same” community with no history, different moderation, server, with different people. Don’t get me started on two communities about the same thing, on two different servers, that don’t know about one another.
Fracturing the lifeblood of your “forum”, “community” - your users will end up making decentralized frameworks / social media less popular than large centralized ones - no matter what you do.
changing a provider is as simple as
making sure every single account you had that is tied to your email now points to a correct new one. And also informing every one of your contacts of the change, which is easier but also less efficient since half of them is going to miss the announcement and keep writing to an email that no longer exists
I have a question.
My partner has made an account on Bluesky because her favorite weather person got banned from Facebook but they made a Bluesky account.
I don’t go on that kind of site, but I saw this post here. So my question is should she join some other instance of Bluesky that isn’t Bsk.social so it won’t crash?
Even if it is short crashes, I want her to have a good experience with decentralized networks and not go back to Xshitter.
So my question is should she join some other instance of Bluesky that isn’t Bsk.social so it won’t crash?
There aren’t any, hence the meme.
I want her to have a good experience with decentralized networks
It is only notionally decentralised, she should just consider it as Xitter without the people actively trying to burn the world down with us still on it.
See also: Bluesky’s fedi-washing and some context for that.
On the upside, it was fairly brief while they did an update, which is what all websites have to do from time to time, including a lot of Lemmy instances with the new version out. So it shouldn’t spoil her user experience.
Eh, I feel like the important part of decentralization right now is the potential to migrate.
Like, how many social media sites actually last 5 years before shitting the bed?
If admins of an instance get shitty, it’s trivial to move to a new one. Traditional social media you’d have to migrate to a completely different site, with different features, layout, and other stuff.
People won’t all wait for the same reason, as the biggest becomes actually “big” we’ll see them start to fracture.
There just wasn’t enough people on fediverse to start out like that.
So think of Blue sky, World, and all those other “big” instances that still don’t have that many users as the egg for the future fediverse that actually has enough users to be proper decentralized
at least when an AP instance goes titsup people can hop on another instance. thats not currently possible with bluesky. to me that puts AP a step above AT
Is migrating really practical? Will your followers automatically follow you on your new server?
On Mastodon yes, it is also compatible with a few other software like Akkoma. Your followers will get a notification that you moved and will automatically follow the new account. Works very seamlessly in my experience.
Thanks a lot, very helpful
On Mastodon it’s very easy and it brings your followers over
It offers possibilities, which are infinitely more probable than systems without such possibilities.
followers
Lol.
Buddy if I have any followers I’d be happy to leave them behind.
But I’m not into that twitter/Instagram/Tiktok nonsense.
If someone was, I’d assume they’d just leave a last post saying:
This is where I am now
They don’t need to jump instances if they’re federated, they just need to follow a new account.
Some people do not recognize questions anymore. You write a lot of stuff that nobody’s interested in, you could have just said: “no”.
Edit, this was based on wrong information provided by @givesomefucks:
And that means that if I am following a person because they write useful things that I’m interested in or that I need for my work, I will loose connection when they suddenly move. That has nothing to do with what you call nonsense; it is a practical consequence of the Fediverse not having migration built in. Fediverse basically offers to create a new account, that is not migration.I will loose connection when they suddenly move
Unless…
I’d assume they’d just leave a last post saying:
This is where I am now
I honestly didn’t type that much, less than your reply actually…
But it’s ironic you complained about the length of a short comment, yet obviously didn’t read the majority of the comment.
Have a nice life bub, feel free to “follow” or not if you want, but don’t expect replys anymore
Is it possible to move all of you subscriptions and comments to a new Lemmy instance?
Yes, in your user settings there should be a button to Export/Import. I think it grabs the communities you subscribe to and any comments that you’ve starred. The comments you’ve made won’t come with.
The comments you’ve made won’t come with.
Probably a deal breaker for many
What about block lists? Are those transferred?
I think so? Just go click the export button yourself and look through the file.
Subscriptions yeah, you can download it with some settings and upload to a new account on most (all?) instances.
Comments tho I’m not sure what you mean. But I can’t think of any interpretation where you’d be able to migrate those.
I think you misunderstand. Bluesky is completely non federated. It has nothing to do with the fediverse and there is no ability to migrate.
Not sure if your information is outdated or if you’re using a different definition of federate, but this blog post says they have support for a degree of federation: https://bsky.social/about/blog/02-22-2024-open-social-web
Hmm thanks. It looks like you can set up a server with their protocol but it doesnt use activitypub. So it is technically federated but its not part of the whole mastodon/lemmy/pixelfed/etc fediverse.
This is really shitty and just creates a whole lot of unnecessary work for everyone if they want to reach bluesky users. If you were slightly more cynical you could say they skipped over the Embrace step and are already at the Extend step, trying to split the fediverse.
I wouldn’t attribute malice for… not using the same protocol others are? And the unnecessary work is posting on Bluesky too instead of just the fediverse?
Twitter was never part of the fediverse, so moving to Bluesky, even though it’s not on the same protocol, is still a step in the right direction. They’re not taking anything away from the fediverse… Well, they might be taking some users away because they’ve hit the critical mass of userbase to let people see what they want to see instead of the one-size-fits-all Linux Star Trek Leftism blend we’ve got over here, but people who are tired of that would be leaving Lemmy eventually anyways.
Its like Apple refusing to use USBC properly. Yeah it might be legal and not clearly malice, but its so stupid that its almost worse than malice. At some point when the standards have been sufficiently established and proven to be working, then not using them becomes basically malicious.
Well sure, but the fediverse is nowhere near that ubiquitous.
Or we could simply not have admins by decentralizing the backend separately from the frontend.
What?
You know an instance is like, a physical server…
Right?
Like, the only way what you’re saying makes sense, is if mods had to host their own communities. Someone has to host shit and be liable. Right now that’s instance admins. If they didn’t exist, you’re just calling whoever hosts and is liable a different name than admin, they still do the same thing.
You’re just zooming in another level on it. Nothing changes.
The only way what I’m saying doesn’t make sense is if you don’t understand what I’m talking about.
Look at Reddit before the API bullshit. Tons of apps all having access to the same content, the apps devs didn’t have control over what subreddit you had access to, they only have control over the UI used to access it and you could switch from one app to another, always using the same credentials because the frontend was independent from the backend.
Now imagine if the backend, the data storage (Reddit’s servers), were decentralized. People would just pool resources to store the content and would have control over what they decide to store on their servers but wouldn’t be able to influence the user experience because users would just be pulling content from all the servers.
So you could add 10TB of storage and not accept NSFW content, you would run filter tools to get rid of what might pass through the cracks (just like admins need to do now even on NSFW content free instances), but that would be it, your storage space would just be 10TB out of thousands of TB of database hosted on a ton of servers, open to the public.
Dumb backend, smart frontend. Users curate their experiences themselves (just like on Reddit) and are guaranteed to have access to all the federated content no matter which frontend they use because admins are taken out of the equation. Mods still exist, but they only have power over their communities, they are the people with the most power from a user perspective. There’s no more instances, just one huge decentralized database accessible via a bunch of websites and apps and users would choose the one which offers them the UI/UX they prefer.
People would just pool resources to store the content and would have control over what they decide to store on their servers but wouldn’t be able to influence the user experience because users would just be pulling content from all the servers.
How do you think they’d choose?
If no one is hosting a picture, or even a text post, how do they see it to decide if they want to host it?
And if it’s already there, why does it need someone else to host it?
It just can’t be both, and it kind of feels like you’re trying to slap something together to circumvent what I pointed out about a host being legally liable for what they host…
you would run filter tools to get rid of what might pass through the cracks (just like admins need to do now even on NSFW content free instances
What do you mean by “get rid of” that isn’t what you’re complaining admins do?
Like, I 100% get what you’re trying to say, explaining more in depth isn’t making a difference. I’m saying that what you’re suggesting doesn’t make sense, not that I just can’t understand it.
It doesn’t logically make sense.
Edit:
As a thought experiment the closest to what you want would be a centralized server that just has “placeholders”, I’m assuming you like crypto, so fuck it, we can make these block chains
Each placeholder only holds the location of the server of the account who made the post.
So when you browse, the place holder queries the account who made the post and serves it thru the client.
For comments you could have the person holding the post hold the placeholders for every comment, the comments themselves hosted by the account who made the comment.
That is feasible but there’s a lot of issues that’ll come up.
But I think that’s what you’re wanting, or at least something close to that and actually plausible. Anyway, this would result in every individual hosting their own content, and no one else being liable for anything someone else ever says/posts.
Except for backup purposes, why do you think I’m talking about everyone hosting everything? Hell, I hope you realize that the way Lemmy works now, instances are just copying other instances content and the issue you’re talking about is a reality that could be circumvented by the solution I’m proposing?
You realize that’s already how websites work, the content is spread over tens or hundreds of servers, they’re just all owned by the same company.
What I mean by “get rid of” is that server admins need to use tools to clean up illegal content from their servers. Lemmy admins are doing that, right now, if they don’t want to end up with CSAM on their server, even if they host an instance that doesn’t allow NSFW content. Without using tools to clean up their server, NSFW content will end up on it.
The interesting thing is that Bluesky might become federated because of bridges to the fediverse. You would be able to federate with Bluesky with a fediverse server.
also incredibly easy for the federal government to take them out
The German federal government?
Bluesky is US-based. Perhaps you’re thinking of Mastodon? It doesn’t really matter, though; I’m sure the new censors will block access from the US to any site that is potentially critical of Trump or his administration, regardless of location.
It’s more like “”“federated”“”.
Assuming people dont make multiple accounts and each server goes offline for maintenance for the same time, wouldnt both one server and multiple servers act the same for the user?
