I know high end grinders are probably worth it for espresso, but for pour-over coffee does it make that much difference? I use a Capresso Infinity at either fine coarse or medium coarse and that’s about it. Visibly the grind size does look a bit variable to me. Since I’m already in conical bur territory here, are higher end grinders really going to make a noticeable difference in my pour-over brews? If you feel strongly the answer is yes, I’m also curious what you would recommend (but please don’t bother naming anything over $500usd unless you provide a link to a used version that is in that range).
Ever considered hand grinding? The comanante is the high-end for that. But James Hoffman just made a video about a decent 35$ hand-grinder. Try to get metal burrs.
No. Arthritis. Thank you though.
Seriously, hand grinder with a power drill on the shaft. Even if you bought a cheap second hand drill just for this, you’d still be ahead
I do this and would not recommend for someone with arthritis. You have to have a strong grip to keep the hand grinder from spinning
I had to wrap mine with rubber bands to hang on to it even without the drill
Ha. Okay, I’ll bite. What’s so great about the hand grinders? Understand you’ll save a little money without a motor, but M I missing something else?
Nope. That’s it. That’s the primary advantage. You can get a better grinder for less if you can forego (or byo) motor.
You get a lot of value for the money with the better hand grinders. The really good 1zpresso, Kinu, and others (not Commandante C40 which is way obsolete for the money) get you great burrs and materials without the added expense and space of a motor. A good hand grinder will go through 25 grams of beans in under a minute easily.
The ritual. Handgrinding has a DIY-feel, it’s quite satisfying to use a good grinder.
I’m not familiar with the Capresso Infinity, but I can compare my Fellow Ode 2 with the Baratza Encore I got my mom for Xmas last year. Both were purchased on sale for Black Friday. The Ode I got for $265 and the Encore for $120.
I’m not really a super taster. I don’t think I can tell “muddy” from “clear” without doing a direct side by side comparison. As long as the beans are fresh and not over roasted, I’m basically fine. This was the conclusion I came to after doing James Hoffman’s Great American Taste Test.
So with all that said, what I appreciate feature and design wise with the Ode over the Encore:
- The Ode is much quieter
- The Ode’s anti static technology is a game changer for me. (I would honestly consider going back to preground coffee without this)
- The Ode’s controls are nicer.
- The Ode has less retention (but still more than I’d like)
- The Ode’s design is more pleasing visually (to me)
I know a lot of this is subjective and I also understand a lot of what makes the premium worth it to me is irrelevant to others.
I have a Baratza Vario and an Aergrind, which are both pretty good grinders. The Vario is a much larger flat burr grinder, and I feel like there’s a pretty drastic difference with the taste of my aeropress coffee with it. Much less bitterness and a cleaner flavor. So I would say it’s worth it. That being said, I also feel like I stop tasting the coffee after a couple weeks with the same beans. So maybe it’s wasted money and effort in that regard. Regardless, I think you would do well with a Fellow Ode or a refurbished Vario
Appreciate the insight. On the rare occasion I’m not brewing multi-cups with chemex, I do actually prefer the aeropress for a single cup so it would be nice to optimize that as well. This discussion has me eying the ode. When my tax return money finally shows up I think I’m going to go for it. I also feel like I lose some of the flavor nuances with the same beans after a bit, but I can still tell when it’s a botched brew. I only buy 12 ounce bags and try to switch things up pretty frequently.
If it’s the same bag or a different bag from the same roast date then that couple of weeks is quite possibly related to the age of the beans.
Capresso Infinity does a great job for pour over so long as you’re using a paper filter. As you note it makes too many fines to use with a mesh filter.
I use either a sock or paper. Perhaps I’d notice a difference with the sock with a different grinder?
I just bought a Kingrinder K6 as a replacement for a Porlex Tall. The coffee tastes so much better, a lot less bitter, because the coffee is ground much more homogeneously.
I’ve now seen enough mentions of this model that I’m more or less decided to buy one. But, where can I get it? The KINGrinder site only points to Amazon where the K6 is
currently unavailable. Now what?Amazon seems to sell em for the lowest price, I got one for 88€. Just write a mail to the manufacturer, I’m shure they will answer why it’s out of stock.
Shopped up the K6, got a discount coupon code thingy (, repeatedly fended off Amazon trying to trick me into starting a Prime trial…), placed my order, and… it’ll be here in a month. Guess the manufacturer have their hair on fire right now.
I’d go for a df64 if you don’t mind single dosing. Great grinder, in your budget, and is comparable to slightly higher priced models. But I’d say if you like the coffee you’re making there’s really no need to change. I wouldn’t let fomo guide your decision unless you’re wanting something new and different in your coffee.
Just chasing perfection, guess it is fomo but sometimes that pays off, other times not. Seems like the greater consensus from what I’m reading is that ode would be better than df64 for pour over. You have any thoughts on that?
Both are quite good but please be looking at the Ode 2 and not the original Ode. Same goes for the DF64, make sure that it is Gen 2 and not the original.
I think you’re dealing with miniscule differences overall between each machine. It can be hard to discern who is just parroting something they heard from Lance vs things that are objective facts. If you’re chasing perfection I’d be looking at something more expensive. But there’s also your beans which is an easier thing to account for. How fresh are they, what kind of varietals are you choosing. Try different origins and see how the tastes change. I think that would get you much further than worrying about which grinder to upgrade to.
Ie if you don’t already have practiced tastes it might be better to focus on that before anything else. It’ll help you experiment with something more fun like different flavors rather than eeking more or better flavor from your existing stock.
I went through this debate myself and ended on the Encore ESP with a 3rd party bellows. I use the wet beans trick for static issues and the bellow deals with my zero retention needs. It is loud however otherwise perfect for aeropress and V60 duty.
The grind consistency and shape of the grinds can be better for pour over. The 1zpresso ZP6 and the Fellow Ode 2 are two grinders that are specifically designed to produce better grinds for pour over. Both under $400.
I’ve got my sites on the ode 2! Was hoping to find a good deal on a used one and probably replace the burs, but not seeing many options. Will likely get a new one in a month or so.
I got a Fellow Opus thinking I might get an espresso machine in the future and I was thinking it might be better for moka pot which I was doing at the time. Now I have abandoned the moka pot and have at least for now decided not to consider an espresso machine. So I regret not getting the Ode 2. Not that the Opus is a bad grinder, it isn’t bad especially at less than $200 but I am now doing only V60 pour over and the Ode 2 would be a better grinder for that.
Perhaps, but ive heard the opus is still a damn good all around grinder. Why did you give up on espresso dreams? I actually drink more espresso than coffee but love the convenience of my Jura fully automatic. Coffee is something I can really get into tweaking but I feel like playing with espresso perfection is something I don’t have the time or pockets for presently.
The Opus is a great grinder for the money. Very powerful. Low enough rpms to not generate too much heat. Not too many fines. Huge torque, like the lightest roast doesn’t even begin to make it work hard.
I already have two very nice hand grinders, so I have good conical burrs. If it hadn’t been for the moka/espresso side track, I was wanting to try out the flat burr profiles.
I have plenty of money for a nice espresso machine, what I don’t have is excess counter space in the kitchen nor an excess of patience that seems to be needed for learning and getting good at espresso.
Also, after lots of moka pot and cafe espresso, I think I just realized I am really more of a light roast filter coffee person.
However, both are over $300!
FTFY
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This is what I’m waiting for. I have a birthday coming up. $299, great reviews on pre-production units, and the bigger brother (sister?) model is highly regarded.
Hoffman’s (comparison) review of the DF64.
I keep editing this. James’ review is for espresso grinding. As long as it can dial to as coarse as you like, and these should, they should be fit for purpose for pour-over.
Interesting. I should have mentioned I typically brew a two person batch in a chemex with 60g of beans. The 54 would be too small. I’ve seen the df64 before though and heard good things. Do you really think I’d notice a taste difference as compared to my infinity though?
I have no idea. I currently have a much more expensive grinder, but it’s a big hopper type; it’s great for entertaining, or would be good for a small coffee shop… but it’s too much grinder for my use.
But you said your issues is with consistency. Maybe you just need to replace the burrs? It might be worth a shot. However, if the DFs had any issues with consistency, James would have jumped all over that, and in fact if you watch that video he uses his fancy new machine to measure consistency. Yes, it’s the 64, but by all accounts the new 54 is the same machine as the 64, but with a smaller motor. It’s going to perform very similarly.
If you think improved consistency is going to improve your coffee, and you notice poor consistency in your current grinder, then yes. The DF will be an improvement. I know nothing about your machine, but a less expensive thing you can try first - like I said - is replace the burrs.
I bought the Orphan Espresso LIDO 2 more than a decade ago and have been using it with my Chemex ever since. The 2 isn’t in production any more, but the LIDO 3 is the seemingly upgraded version of it for $170USD. Looks good, but I can only speak to the quality of the previous iteration.
*It’s a hand grinder.
I’m a fan of the Breville smart grinder pro, 200 USD. Primarily used for espresso but I do occasional pour overs. Prior to the Breville I had a cheap mr coffee burr grinder from target, maybe 30 usd. I don’t taste a difference for pour overs.
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