that is just sad. yet so many will say sexism does not exist
Pretty sure racism is also involved
Intersectionality
It’s as if, like, if you are a woman, and also in a disfavoured racial category, like, where they, uh, have overlap? Where they meet? It’s not the same as either one individually but its own, I guess nexus? I feel like there’s a better word for this
There’s a somewhat niche, but clever word for this particular combo - misogynoir
Coined by Moya Bailey in 2010
I think it’s called a “double minority”, but being a woman isn’t really a minority tho (edit: not a minority in the context of being 50% of the human population) so I don’t know if theres a better term than that.
I feel bad for people who are black, lesbian, neurodivergent, and trans-woman… like that’s a quadruple minority.
but being a woman isn’t really a minority tho
It depends on the context. In a Victoria’s Secret fashion show? Yeah, probably not the minority. In a tech role, which women are systemically harassed and bullied out of pursuing? Yeah, women are probably a minority.
The term is “intersectionality”. Conservatives really hated the term before they went all popeyed over “woke”.
but being a woman isn’t really a minority tho
They certainly are in computer science
That’s not what minority means in the sociological context. Volume is mathematical. Poor people are a minority and there’s more of them than the 1%. Being a minority is about lack of power, prestige and property. And intersectionality is the more formal term, but ‘double minority’ gets the point across.
idk the point of your snark… people are still figuring out intersectionality. just give some education or stfu, dont condescend to people who are making an effort.
@ReiRose@lemmy.world has it right, the term and idea is intersectionality.
apropos of nothing, intersectionality came out of critical race theory’s analyses of black womens outcomes in the legal system. the particular combination of oppression is literally the textbook example.
Yeah, online gaming has all but confirmed to me that sexism is very alive and well.
This is also common in the guitar community. Some women can shred like mofos, and here comes Jim-Bob McGraw saying their playing is tracked etc., ad nauseum
Can… Can I be the one sitting in that chair? (｡♡‿♡｡)
What does it mean if their playing is “tracked”? Genuinely have no clue.
Like they use a pre recorded track and then make a video
Lip syncing for guitarists
Sure there are. But then there are girls like Melle Baby who overshadow them not by only wearing underwear. Seriously, how do I get her out of my recommendations?
The funny thing is that in my experience female programmers usually have above average skills. I suspect it’s exactly because of this bias against women in tech. Where an average or below average dude can easily get by, this is much harder for women. As a result this bias acts as a kind of filter which results in female programmers being on average a little better than male programmers because all the average or below average ones get filtered out early.
Here’s hard data to match your experience:
“This paper presents the largest study to date on gender bias, where we compare acceptance rates of contributions from men versus women in an open source software community. Surprisingly, our results show that women’s contributions tend to be accepted more often than men’s. However, women’s acceptance rates are higher only when they are not identifiable as women. Our results suggest that although women on GitHub may be more competent overall, bias against them exists nonetheless.”
That’s probably just because women are smarter than men.
I might add, in the hostile environment women may feel compelled to try harder at least to make a point. As in, “I’ll show you what I can do”.
If she were a man, she’d be calling herself a polymath and everybody would be agreeing with her.
Hell, she’s be the meme for what a “real man” is instead of “gigachad.”
Even more rage inducing these comments would be the same if she wasn’t conventionally attractive.
Fucking programmers need a solid clip around the ear.
Claims to be able to program in C++, Java
“Pfft yeah probably only in Hello World”
No that’s Elon Musk. He’s full of shit. This Victoria Secret model can actually do something.
Nah Elon is not that useless, he knows how to change twitter’s icon
I’m sure he got someone to do that for him
Probably replaced “twitter_logo.png” with the x logo under the same name in an AWS bucket lmao
That’s actually pretty hard to do with a codebase as large as twitter’s must be. You would have to locate the frontend code for each front end they have (website, app, etc). For each front end, there will be multiple Twitter logos (different resolutions, icon version, etc.). And then you would have to replace all of them and push the changes through their pipelines.
I doubt musk can do that.
It’s incredible to me that people actually think Elon writes code at Twitter
Elon is a novice when it comes to programming.
That is obvious to any programmer who saw his antics at the beginning of the Twitter takeover.
I mean, the guy was claiming the people who added the most lines of codes are the ones with the most skills and are the ones allowed to stay.
While an amateur programmer needs 100 lines of code, a good programmer can do the same in less than 10 lines. Which is faster, more performant, wastes less resources, and is easier to read afterwards.
It is literally the opposite of what Musks claims.
And lose lawsuits
I was so glad we had a woman join our dev team some months ago. It’s more fun, more relaxed and we are able to get better results as we just cover a wider area of skills. People gatekeeping programming to include only men are idiots.
That poor girl. My gf’s only female teammate quit last month and i suggested she start grinding leetcode asap. Could you imagine being the only woman on a team? Pretty strong indicator that something is very wrong there.
Eh, my team is this way, but it’s because we’re aerospace adjacent which further compounds the problem. The only woman on our team is awesome and everyone gets along great. No one has an inflated ego or feels the need to one up each other though, which tends to be the root of the issue in my experience. Lots of tech bros feel the need to put others down, and see women as an easier target unfortunately.
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I think they meant men in specific in this case. I don’t know that there’s a huge problem of women being sexist against other women in tech.
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Are you suggesting it’s never about gender? There’s no such thing as sexism?
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If we want to reach parity, there’s gotta be some only woman at first.
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It’s the same thing with any kind of diversity. Not an expert, but anecdotally, it seems to work better if you start adding diversity at the top. At least people at the senior+ level are generally more comfortable being outliers.
Tbf, the original photo was already discounting her abilities. Saying “can program code” for a lead SWE is saying like “can do calculus” for a physicist.
In their defense, maybe the post was written by some journalist with no technical background at all and doesn’t know the difference.
Journalists are expected to do better. Otherwise, just hire anyone because even someone without any formal education could do better
Journalists are expected to do better.
When journalists were better paid, they did. Now most are stuck in race to the bottom content mills churning out as many posts as possible.
Very much so. Many non-technical people are still very much in awe when someone drops names of programming languages. And it kinda makes sense. If they have no idea, they naturally equate it to spoken languages. And if someone goes like “I speak these 7 languages”, most people would be mightily impressed.
But if you know a few programming languages, adding another similar one might be a matter of hours.
And that list of languages in the article is pretty standard for a BS in CS: a bunch of standard, common languages and one assembly language.
Likely they covered MIPS assembly at university. MIPS is a comparatively simple architecture and thus is used a lot in CS courses.
The thing here is, if they really wanted to show off that she’s got a good carreer and doing something remarkable, they could have just done what she did in her comment. List her current position and maybe her education.
I’d not be very happy if someone were to present my skills and achivements as “Can use these programming languages”.
Also, once you’re moderately good at programming, language doesn’t matter much. You can pick up a new high level language relatively easily if needed. Low level languages might be harder for some people though, because it takes a fairly different mindset. Personally, I love low level programming, though it’s not very time efficient to write.
Yeah, once you’ve got a few languages under your belt, it’s all about concepts. If you end up learning a new language that follows completely different paradigms, you are back to square one. But most of the time you can go like “Ah, so concept X of the new language works similar to concept Y of that language I already know.”
It’s annoying sometimes that people just assume that those who don’t work in tech are completely clueless about tech.
It’s also really funny to mess with people who assumes that.
as someone who works in tech, the number of people who think they know about tech and are actually completely full of shit dramatically outweighs the people who don’t work in tech and do know what they’re talking about. it can take a lot of energy to differentiate the 2 groups
dunning krueger is at play a lot, because most people use a computer every day and think they know everything about the internet because they know what DNS stands for and typed a command to flush the DNS cache this one time and it worked
This mirrors the experience of anyone who has studied linguistics.
Because everyone speaks at least one language fluently, they tend to assume that they understand how languages work, while having zero awareness of the fact that people have spent generations studying language and communication at the PhD level and that almost nothing about what we reflexively intuit about language actually holds true.
And I say this as a purely amateur linguistics nerd who does not claim any real formal expertise in terms of academic credentials.
Yeah, you can’t really fake experience either. I recently joined a group of guys who clearly have had plenty of real world experience in the kinds of things I have, and just talking shop is refreshing. Haven’t had that ability for a long time.
If someone like her showed up in my team, and she’s able to talk the talk, I wouldn’t need any further validation and it’d be fun to hear the kinds of things she’s worked on.
Funnily enough, a woman is joining this all-guy group soon and I’m told she’s really good, so I get to do exactly that.
Don’t exhaust yourself, just assume that everyone who thinks they know about tech does. They’ll prove themselves wrong very quickly if necessary and you eliminate the risk of getting owned by a VS model.
except when you waste a crap load of time figuring something out only to realise that the person that says “it can’t be X” didn’t actually know that it was in fact X
… this is why you don’t argue with ISP support when they tell you to reboot your router: just do it; they don’t know that you’ve done that before you call them, and you telling them that’s not the problem is not going to change anything… it’s not because they don’t believe you specifically, it’s because they just can’t trust that everyone knows what they’re talking about
the same goes for most IT problems… it saves time in the long run to just assume people don’t know what they’re doing, because problems and systems are both complex and dynamic
Nah, ISP support (and many other support) just have a script they have to go through on every call.
I agree that rebooting your electronic device will fix a lot of issues.
But if those from support were actually any good, they would just reboot your router remotely.
that kind of reboot doesn’t do everything… turning the power off for 30sec completely discharges the capacitors in the power supply, as well as leaving time for things in the exchange to time out and reset
it’s a quick way of solving a mountain of issues, both client side and ISP side
some ISPs do have a script, some have better support than that but rebooting is a good strategy for a huge number of things because IT systems are just so complex
This is true, but also IT is a huge place there is an insane amount to learn. So really you spend an incredible amount of time in the “valley of despair”. Basically anyone who brags about their skills is VERY suspect. This person is an iOS developer, which is a great career, but the title of the article is phrased like she was at least Linus Torvalds. I’m sure she had little say in this, but whilst a reaction like this is never justified I can see why people made fun of it. Also it was clearly written by someone who has no idea what the words mean. Unless I’m mistaken MIPS is a cpu architecture, you can’t program in it. You can write machine code “for” it. So yeah I can see why people assumend these claims were lies.
They assumed these claims were lies because they are sexist.
I work in tech. I taught programming at university. And guys think I have no idea what I am talking about when I am the person correcting their f*ing babies homework. I had men come into my office asking me when the Sys Admin is back in office.
I feel personally attacked lol
can program code
Such a weird sentence
You know what. Good on her. Proud of her doing what she loves. You go girl!
Am I the only one that doesn’t think it’s a waste if a gorgeous person does modeling/acting? If I had a body people wanted to ogle I would be using that power 24/7 instead of sitting here in a shitty office under fluorescent lights pretending to care about work while they pretend to care about me.
I’m not really sure what they’re referring too. Maybe they misspelled waist?
This is some good shit. As a white American male, I say: fuck sexism and racism. You go, girl.
I’d be impressed by anyone who could “Hello, world” in MIPS
I manage a software engineering organization at an aerospace company and if I had to rank all my folks, the women would be disproportionately high on the list. It boggles my mind that anyone would discount someone’s programming ability because of their gender.
“This paper presents the largest study to date on gender bias, where we compare acceptance rates of contributions from men versus women in an open source software community. Surprisingly, our results show that women’s contributions tend to be accepted more often than men’s. However, women’s acceptance rates are higher only when they are not identifiable as women. Our results suggest that although women on GitHub may be more competent overall, bias against them exists” nonetheless.https://peerj.com/preprints/1733/
I wonder if that’s the underdog effect at work
Sure. I’ve known several crappy women programmers, but they get pushed out of the industry. The guys are more likely to fail upward.
A hello world in MIPS is impressive by itself.
It’s almost like they don’t know who Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper, Radia Perlman, etc. are.
Programming began as a solely female profession. In the early days of computers mathematics viewed programming as beneath them so it was relegated to women. Before computers they performed complex calculations by hand and those number crunchers were women, so when number crunchers were replaced with computers the best women graduated to programming those instead. If course once it became clear that programming was much more versatile and transformative than just converting math equations into instructions, men just took it and kicked women out of the industry. It’s not just the big female names that are being ignored here, it’s an entire history and industry that was stolen from women that is being ignored.
“G-GU-GUH?!?! NO, HOW COULD THIS BE?!?!? A FEMAIL GURL? IN MY PRO-GRAMMING COMMUNITY? PRO-GRAMMING IS 4 MANLY STRAIGHT WHITE MALES LIKE ALAN TURING (lol), ADAM LOVELACE, AND GRAYSON HOPPER”
Great list, I think Joan Clarke should be on it too, there are probably many more.
List wasn’t supposed to be comprehensive but feel totally free to add to it, the more examples we have the more we can BTFO the incel chuds
I’ve been in IT for 30 years. I wish I could say this stuff surprises me but it doesn’t. The industry still struggles with misogyny
Whenever I see someone taking down these absolute bottom of the barrel incel dork on social media, it just feels like shoo-ing a squirrel off the bird feeder. Just not even worth taking action
IMO, it’s always worth it because you dont know who is reading this: I imagine some young or teenage girls might see this-- imagine how they feel when they read the disparaging comments from the incels. Pretty dejected, I’d think. Then imagine how they feel when they read the model/engineer’s reply. It also shows boys what shite behaviour is.
It’s never a waste to shut the misogynists down-- it’s like investing in your future.
I’m with you. We don’t argue this stuff to change the original person’s mind, we argue it so that other people reading, who might have tendencies to feel that way, or who are the victim of it, get an opposing point of view.
Reading comments provide so much perspective. They’ve helped me plenty! Thank you to anyone who tries. <3
In this case the smackdown has gotten quite a lot of exposure. I only know about her because I’ve seen this same screenshot before.
Basically they’re scared and intimidated. Here is a person who is beautiful and intelligent and has made something of herself and that highlights their own inabilities.
I think sexism is only part of the problem, they’d have a similar response to a male model who had a successful tech career.
I’m not sure tbh. This reeks of a regular techbro sexism, not a regular insecurity. Intelligent male model will be a point of envy, not hate
That’s certainly a part of the problem here, but let’s be honest: how often do tabloids or other low effort media publish such “inspirational” stories that turn out to be absolute bullshit. Like the 10 year old who invented some quantum stuff, but actually his father just let him play around with some tools in the lab.
This story here unfortunately fits exactly this pattern, but apparently just happens to be true.
I’m involved in technology and race mountain bikes on the side. Other than the occasional “it must be nice to be fit” comments from the neckbeard techbros, they’re not as openly hostile to me as they are to women who are in tech. There is definitely a strong sexism part of the equation.
It’s not necessarily being “scared and intimidated”.
We’re just conditioned that when someone at the top of their field talks about their hobbies / interests / skills outside that field, it’s very often a very shallow level of skill. Why? Because being at the top of your field in almost anything takes a lot of focus. You don’t really have time to develop other skills / hobbies.
There are countless examples. Actors or athletes who release music albums that are just awful. Celebrities who write really amateurish novels which would sink into obscurity if they didn’t have a famous person’s name attached.
Making the problem worse, often the entourage of those rich and famous people is filled with sycophants who heap praise on the celebs. That leads them to believe that they really are good at their hobbies.
Then there’s the fact that the world is so hungry for celebrity gossip and special interest stories that “journalists” often get a tiny nugget of information and use it for the basis of an entire article. So, if a celebrity mumbles something about liking their backyard barbecue, it will spawn countless articles about how that celeb is an expert at the art of BBQ, they might release their own branded BBQ sauce, their skills were endorsed by some celebrity chef, etc.
So, given all that, it’s perfectly reasonable to be skeptical when you hear something like “This [insert celebrity type here] can [insert hobby here] like an expert!”
You know damn good and well that if this was a hot dude that could do these things, the comments towards them wouldn’t be nearly as hostile.
“This [insert celebrity type here] can [insert hobby here] like an expert!”
The original post doesn’t say “like an expert”, but you continued to create a strawman argument focused mostly on this aspect.
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Not everything needs to be fact checked.
Whether this is real or fake, it doesn’t matter. I’m never gonna encounter her in any way, there is no relevance in it. If I read stuff like that, I think “good for her” and move on.
What’s the point of being super sceptic of something that has no impact on you?
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