An Israeli military spokesperson confirmed that there were “hostage situations” in the southern city of Ofakim and the nearby kibbutz of Beeri.
Hamas said it had taken “dozens” of Israeli soldiers hostage and moved them to the Gaza Strip as footage emerged appearing to show gunmen in military fatigues leading a group of mostly barefoot women down a street in Israel.
The announcement and video verified by NBC News came hours after Hamas launched a deadly land, air and sea attack and fired a huge barrage of rockets at Israel.
This is just fucking barbarous. There is so much hate and bad blood in this region it is almost unbelievable.
Justified barbarism until their land is theirs again, imo.
If you punch someone on the nose, you can’t expect sympathy when they punch back. This isn’t going to produce the result Hamas was going for.
I mean, Israel is getting sympathy for punching Palestine for the last 75 years.
If Israel had been any other middle eastern country we would have leveled them when they attacked the USS Liberty. Instead we funded 3% of their national budget for another 60 years.
false
false
Elaborate
You can say the same thing about Israel as well. They are long past peaceful diplomacy when Israel decides it owns their homes.
And that is why nothing shall change.
Yup and hopefully something will be done about Israel so it can stop.
I can’t even comprehend how one could have the situation so backwards in their head that they could say this.
With how skewed the power balance is against them, I support any effort at all to fight against Israel.
not every underdog in the world is morally in the right, you know. There’s also a huge imbalance in power between the January 6th rioters and the United States Government—are you suggesting the rioters were in the right?
ugh, maybe I don’t want to know the answer.
Once again, shitty comparison. I don’t even think.I have to explain how this one makes no sense.
that was your logic: you support them because the power balance is skewed.
many evil groups are small, and weak, and underdogs. Rooting for them on that basis is stupid.
I have already outlined why the Palestinians are justified.
It’s already produced the result Hamas was going for. They are not fighting for better treatment, they are fighting to cause terror, murder Jews, celebrate their deaths, and revel in their control over the poeple they supposedly govern.
Barbarism, like all violence, is never justified. It may be inevitable, but brutalizing innocent People has never and will never accomplish anything of merit. While the origins may be understandable, they in no way justify the actions and in no way further the cause, but definitely impede progress.
The fuck is wrong with you?
People frequently feel emboldened to celebrate murder when the people being murdered are Jews.
So, not because of a long history of brutality towards the Palestinian people, but because they’re Jewish? GFTO with that nonsense.
The conflict has been raging for a long time. So have many other conflict. Nobody defends attacks on civilians anywhere else in the world; only when the victims are Jewish.
Nobody defends attacks on civilians anywhere else in the world; only when the victims are Jewish.
This is bullshit, I’m afraid. I haven’t seen single comment here supporting an attack on Israel civilians. Stop gaslighting.
There are like twelve people here. This person doesn’t seem too torn up, but you want support, you want celebration.
Obviously, people in Palestine are celebrating the attacks, but let’s forget about them.
Mia Kalifa is not only celebrating the attack, but retweeting a good dozen other people who are doing the same, each of whom seem to be getting plenty of attention: https://nitter.net/miakhalifa
I’m trying not to expose myself to much more, but if you really want me to subject myself to people reveling in the murder of my people, I’ll go look.
Ah yes, the old “blood and soil” justification. We have a term for people that think this way: Fascist.
Fascism is supporting Israel, what a crazy thing to say.
Do you even know what fascism is?
Israel is a Democracy.
There hasn’t been an election in Gaza since Hamas gained control… how long has it been? 18 years? Elections have been permanently suspended by Hamas probably longer than you’ve been alive.
And look at what Hamas is doing right now. And why? Blood and soil.
That should be a clue.
Do you even know what fascism is?
Israel is a Democracy.
An Apartheid democracy. What Israel is doing in East Palestine and the West bank, and what they were doing in Gaza before the second intifada, is literally Lebensraum.
“Apartheid state” rhetoric is just covering for the Hamas fascists. See before Hamas got into power Palestine had elections to determine their national leadership. But Hamas got into power and “permanently suspended” elections. They ended Palestinian democracy and by doing so destroyed any hope of Palestine being recognized as a legitimate country by anyone that’s not playing bullshit games.
So now Hamas apologists try to rewrite history to convince people there was never any Palestinian democracy, and try to characterize the conflict as something happening within Israel’s borders, thus “Apartheid state.”
I suppose it’s been so long since Hamas ended democracy in Palestine the younger people don’t have any concept of there ever being Palestinian elections, so maybe it’s understandable to think it’s unfair that Israel doesn’t allow people in the West Bank to vote in Israeli elections. But if you think about it logically, in order for Palestinians in the West Bank to have the rights of Israelis, Israel would have to annex the West Bank. Is that what you want? In order for people in Gaza to have the same rights as Israelis, first Israel would have to re-occupy Gaza, then annex it as well, Is that what you want?
But Hamas got into power and “permanently suspended” elections.
I’m not defending it, but that kinda bypasses a whole lot of context (it was Fatah who tried to ignore the election results first). ?Anyway I’m not saying Hamas are good guys. Anyone who just shoots up civilians is evil in my book, but I’m not sure how that has to do with Israel being an Apartheid state.
But if you think about it logically, in order for Palestinians in the West Bank to have the rights of Israelis, Israel would have to annex the West Bank. Is that what you want? In order for people in Gaza to have the same rights as Israelis, first Israel would have to re-occupy Gaza,
I’m talking about the already-annexed East Jerusalem. Either give them independence or let them vote on how they’re governed; and no, city elections aren’t enough.
And what should the Jews there do until their land is theirs again? Or are only the Palestinians allowed a homeland?
Look at Israel’s borders when it was formed and look at them now, and then ask yourself why there’s such a difference
the charts you’ve been seeing are mostly fictitious. The most significant event those charts even attempt to depict is the 6-day war in 1967, when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia attacked Israel, Israel defended itself, and took control of Jordanian-controlled East Jerusalem and the Syrian-controlled Golan Heights in response—and that’s about it.
Or are only the Palestinians allowed a homeland?
Everyone should be allowed a homeland, but not everyone should be allowed an apartheid state where they’re allowed to oppress others.
It’s a good thing Israel is the only place in the Middle East where people have the same rights regardless of race or religion. There’s nothing in Israel resembling apartheid.
https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/01/24/dismantling-the-apartheid-lie/
The Israeli government oppresses the Palestinian people in response to the constant threat the region poses to Israeli civilians. I wish for peace and an end to oppression. But since Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005, terrorist activity spiked. Israel’s concessions constantly result in the deaths of innocent Israelis. This is the conflict.
But since Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005, terrorist activity spiked.
Correction: Terrorist activity, predictably spiked after the blockade in 2007. I mean, turning countries into open-air concentration camps has that effect.
The Israeli government oppresses the Palestinian people in response to the constant threat the region poses to Israeli civilians.
What? How does oppressing civilians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem help combat terror? How does settlement in the West Bank help combat terror?
Also check the official definition of Apartheid. Do you need me to tell you how Israel fits the definition?
There’s nothing necessary about the oppression of Palestinians in Israel, Gaza or the West Bank. The terror attacks you’re talking about are the result of the oppression; don’t mix your cause and effect.
Correction: Terrorist activity, predictably spiked after the blockade in 2007. I mean, turning countries into open-air concentration camps has that effect.
Your tactic is superficial. A blockade does not make a concentration camp. You’re evoking imagery of something that is, in fact, wholly unrelated. you chose that term specifically in your intentional, racist attempt to paint Jews as Nazis. I hope to hell nobody falls for it.
What? How does oppressing civilians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem help combat terror?
Specifically, the blockade helps fight terror. The blockade prevents terrorists from getting materials to make weapons. And Hamas uses anything it can get its hands on into a weapon. That’s part of the reason they work so hard to control the flow of aid within Palestine—the other reasons being quite obvious.
Also check the official definition of Apartheid. Do you need me to tell you how Israel fits the definition?
Only insofar as every border everywhere fits the definition. South African Apartheid—the thing people are trying to reference in order to demonize Israel—was intra-state apartheid. It was not an instance of border enforcement. Border enforcement is incredibly common. The Israel-Palestine conflict has nothing to do with Apartheid South Africa, but again, you people know that people think Apartheid is bad, so those are your go-tos. Israel is Nazis, Israel is Apartheid. Neither claim holds up to any scrutiny. You’d be better off arguing that Israel was a communist nation, tbh.
There’s nothing necessary about the oppression of Palestinians in Israel, Gaza or the West Bank. The terror attacks you’re talking about are the result of the oppression; don’t mix your cause and effect.
Muslims and Arabs in the region have been terrorizing Jews since at least the late 1800s. They were never willing to accept any form of peace or coexistence.
A blockade does not make a concentration camp.
That’s a metaphor, ever heard of it? Israel doesn’t allow dual-use materials. The thing is: A lot of life’s necessities are dual use. See:
According to the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories of the Israel Defense Forces, in May 2010, this included over 1.5 million litres of diesel fuel and gasoline, fruits and vegetables, wheat, sugar, meat, chicken and fish products, dairy products, animal feed, hygiene products, clothing and shoes.
Specifically, the blockade helps fight terror.
The blockade caused the terror. Like literally the rocket attacks started with the blockade; you can look at the timeline. Also I like how you now narrowed your definition to the blockade, because you can’t justify anything happening to Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
Only insofar as every border everywhere fits the definition. South African Apartheid—the thing people are trying to reference in order to demonize Israel—was intra-state apartheid.
You need to learn more about East Jerusalem. I’ll start: East Jerusalem Palestinians are systematically and routinely evicted from their homes to make way for Jewish settlements. It’s much harder for Palestinians to gain construction permits than it is for Jews. Palestinian peaceful protests are repeatedly suppressed violently. It’s almost impossible for a Palestinian in East Jerusalem to get Israeli citizenship (not that many want it, but the ones who do can’t), meaning that they live under a regime they can’t politically participate in. Should I go on? For more information, look up “Palestinian boy shoot in face by Israeli police”. There’s more than one story.
Note how I didn’t even touch on the West Bank; that’s a whole different beast.
Muslims and Arabs in the region have been terrorizing Jews since at least the late 1800s. They were never willing to accept any form of peace or coexistence.
You mean anti-Jewish sentiment began to rise when the “let’s take Arabs’ lands for ourselves” movement began to gain steam? Say it ain’t so. Also give me an example of that terrorization.
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Sadly, what all must do is talk to one another, respect one another, and work out a solution. Neither the Nyet and Yahoo brigade nor the clueless attack and hide while innocents are punished for your actions squad are working upon a solution. Likely they are the impediment which must go away first.
Likely they are the impediment which must go away first.
Hamas can’t disappear until Israel’s stance changes. Remember: Hamas came to power because Israel wasn’t willing to advance a peaceful solution.
What should Israel’s stance be with regards to people who want them dead?
Not do things that put people who want them did into power. There’s a reason Palestinians flocked behind Hamas and that was because peaceful solutions were not working.
And their actions make that harder to accomplish just as the actions taken by Israel can’t disappear until the Palestinians’ stance changes. It is a circle.
No no. Hamas’s philosophy, and what won them the 2006 elections (they had never won before that), was the idea that peace was clearly not working. For example, what got Israel to pull out of Gaza was not the Oslo peace process, but the second Intifada after the peace process had failed. That’s what I’m talking about. It’s not like Palestinians are fighting because they want to; it’s that Israel is creating a situation where there’s no way but to fight or accept your fate as the oppressed. Usually the oppressor needs to stop their oppression before the oppressed stop fighting back.
Now I’m not saying if Israel gave Palestinians their demands terror attacks would stop completely, but a population living in peace greatly reduces terrorist organizations’ recruitment pool. See: The IRA during the troubles vs now. There’s just no world where Hamas can maintain power without a belligerent Israel…
Your first paragraph is utterly irrelevant to the discussion as this isn’t about reasons for grievance. That said, you are mostly wrong about the cause and effect involved.
The IRA then VS now was also via Peace Process being a two way street and not one side doing something. You should study what happened to see that it was in fact both sides realizing the only way forward. Unlike you myopic “It is up to the greater power to stop fighting first!”, both sides had to. And while your supposition that Hamas relies upon the oppression for their continued existence, they would cause the process to fail by an attack, much as the current one. And the only result is those that are also reliant upon the conflict for power in Israel are using the attack to increase support for more oppression.
Just to clarify, you understand they’re all semites and they’re all from that particular region?
Like, it isn’t Israelite land any more than its Palestinian land and at a certain point, these claims of “it was ours first” just continue the cycle of violence, oppression and war crimes.
They are all both perpetrators and victims.
Religious homelands are not homelands.
Are ethnic homelands homelands?
What counts as a homeland, to you? Where are we allowed to engage in self-determination?
You know what, you’re right. My family fled Lithuania when the Soviets took over, so I’m on the next flight to Vilnius and I’m going to move into the first house I find owned by an ethnic Russian.
I would not recommend or condone that, personally, but I am happy that you are once again welcome in Lithuania. If you did find and reclaim your own family’s home through some procedure under Lithuanian law, that would be nice.
My family fled Iran during the revolution. We are not welcome there. We still own property there, in theory. Many Jews are unwelcome in many of the places they spent hundreds or thousands of years. We have frequently been expelled from our various homelands. You can see why we don’t want to be expelled from our own. I do hope you understand.
If you did find and reclaim your own family’s home through some procedure under Lithuanian law, that would be nice.
Oh trust me, some of the things Jews did for that land were not lawful. See Benny Morris’s 4-stage analysis of the Palestinian diaspora.
Yes, ethnic homelands are homelands because their ancestors have been living there. Being a member of the same religion does not entitle you or your people to land any more than shouting an incantation.
The Jewish people are an ethnic group, not only a religion. Our ancestors lived in Israel. No matter how hard the various colonizers tried to keep us over the millennia, we maintained some Jewish presence there the entire time. Now, we once again control a portion of our ethnic homeland and are not willing to give it up.
Is there something you’re still confused about?
Nope, your ancestors didnt live in Israel. People who were the same religious as you did. The jewish presence expanded rapidly in various waves, but was not as consistent as you’re making it out to be. It is not your ethnic homeland.
None of these organized people are worth a penny, both governments, all the terrorist groups, they’re all scum, and the people suffer on both sides endlessly because of them.
Israeli army does this, Hamas does that
The people suffer.
Religion best begets violence as this just brings us closer to WW3
I hope the Palestinian people and the Israeli people can know peace in this lifetime
Fuck Hamaz! The only thing that they’re good at is misrepresenting all Palestinians as terrorists.
They have done incredible damage to Palestinians with this attack.
It’s probably not even Hamas if we’re being honest, Iran probably just paid a Hamas branch to take credit while most of the people on the ground aren’t Palestinian but rather generic Islamic mercs.
Is this where we’re shocked about the Hamas fascist regime doing fascist things? Does the leftists that pretend Hamas isn’t fascist rationalize out how they are justified to do this because of “blood and soil”? Probably need to obfuscate the “blood and soil” thing to convince themselves they aren’t supporting fascism.
Odd how the actions of fascists are acceptable to leftists if the fascists are of a different religion and ethnicity from themselves.
Shall we continue with the narrative that providing military hardware to Israel to defend themselves from their violent fascist neighbors is different from providing military hardware to Ukraine?
This is who Hamas is. This is what fascists do. There’s no real goal other than promoting violence to maintain their power.
People need to stop looking the other way about actions of those they support simply because they want to go along with what everyone else is supporting on the internet. People need to recognize that Palestine has a real fascism problem. Go ahead and criticize Israel if you want, but there won’t be peace while Palestine is fascist, because peace is antithetical to fascists.
Would Palestine have such a problem if Israel stopped encroaching on them? Honest question.
There are many people living in Palestine, it’s important not to generalize them all as having the same will.
But for Hamas (which holds a majority of the seats in the PA), the answer is unambiguously yes. Their charter explicitly calls for the eradication of Israel, and also of all Jews. Their actions confirm their intent. They are popular and irredeemable.
More generally, a common phrase among Palestinians is “from the river to the sea.” There are varying interpretations of this phrase, and its exact meaning, so not everybody who says it means that Israel should be razed off the map, but it likely includes at least a “right of return” for not only Palestinian refugees, but their descendants (who are often confoundingly referred to as refugees themselves). This influx of millions of Arabs into Israel—a democracy—would make it impossible for Israel to function as a safe haven for the Jewish people. That is intentional.
There are a couple of youtube channels going around just asking people questions. Different people have different perspectives. But by and large, Palestinians are not willing to accept current borders, or 1967 borders, or the UN’s proposed borders from the 1940s, or any such thing without other concessions that would seriously damage Israel.
Would Germany have been such a problem if the Treaty of Versailles been more fair? Honest question.
In answering this question do you find yourself in agreement with a certain fascist regime? Thinking the treaty of Versailles was unfair to Germany doesn’t make you a Nazi. Thinking that the Nazis were justified in their actions because of the unfairness of that treaty does make you a Nazi.
See that’s how fascist propaganda works. Make people focused only on the wrongs done to them while claiming any wrongs done by them is justified.
There is no justification for ethnic cleansing. This is the goal of Hamas. They are evil.
In answering this question do you find yourself in agreement with a certain fascist regime? Thinking the treaty of Versailles was unfair to Germany doesn’t make you a Nazi. Thinking that the Nazis were justified in their actions because of the unfairness of that treaty does make you a Nazi
Good comparison, thanks.
