Is this the thing where people act like their little suburb in ~Oklahoma (population, 10k) is “the real world” but a major city like NYC (population, 8 million) is some sort of fake world?
No this is me living in one of the most populated cities within the most populated state of the US. I just don’t lock myself into only interacting with people from one political party. Even within deeply blue cities there are Trump supporters everywhere. Most of you just can’t spot them if your lives depended on it because they have spent their entire lives pretending to be one of you.
I mean, there are reasons why right wing people don’t admit it. “I don’t think women should vote” isn’t going to make a lot of friends with women, for example. I don’t “lock myself” into avoiding Republicans, but their beliefs are often reprehensible so we don’t get along.
But also I live in NYC and I’m sure there are trump supporters, but most people recognize him as a scumbag and threat.
I can absolutely promise you without a shadow of a doubt in my entire body that you interact with conservatives/republicans/right leaning people every single day and you have no clue at all. Sure the ones with the red hats and missing teeth are the easiest ones to spot, but they are in more places than the average left leaning person even suspects.
I worked for a VERY left/liberal major college in California. The head of my department was one of these “hidden” conservatives. She played the part of a left wing Democrat manager incredibly well. Had the trans stickers on her laptop and all that jazz. I didn’t even know that she didn’t agree with any of the schools political nonsense until I ran into her at a gun range all decked out in 2A shit lol. Turns out she just leans into that “character” since it’s what works to get ahead in that place. And she was absolutely right.
I know a gay couple that are pretty right leaning, but they learned a long time ago that their own people don’t accept different opinions so they just play pretend whenever they go out into the LGBT spaces and they are their normal Republican selves at home or with their right leaning buddies.
Some people that have opinions that go against the mainstream can chameleon better than most people realize. It doesn’t work so well the other way around. I tried taking one of my very left leaning friends to a heavily conservative skewed event and they stuck out like a sore thumb the entire time even though they attempted to dress up and act the way they thought right leaning people would. People called them out in it a few times and made fun of them lightly, but they didn’t really care.
I’m not even conservative and I learned to shut up and play pretend for the short time I went to college because questioning the professor or showing you don’t go a long with the narrative is a great way to get targeted by the teachers and other students.
For the record very few people on the right actually believe women shouldn’t have the right to vote. Most of them say it as a joke because they know how much it rubs certain people the wrong way. It’s kinda like the guys that complain (jokingly) to their wives that they need to get back in the kitchen and make them a sandwich. Yeah some of them actually mean it and fuck those people, but the grand majority do not view women that way at all.
I know a gay couple that are pretty right leaning, but they learned a long time ago that their own people don’t accept different opinions so they just play pretend whenever they go out into the LGBT spaces and they are their normal Republican selves at home or with their right leaning buddies.
It is extremely misleading to characterize this as “different opinions”. The republican party is extremely hostile to queer people. We’re not talking about like “i like pop-punk and you like 90s-r&b”.
Also if people really are lying about their beliefs so hard, that’s fucked up. Most of us learn that lying is bad in early childhood.
I’m not even conservative and I learned to shut up and play pretend for the short time I went to college because questioning the professor or showing you don’t go a long with the narrative is a great way to get targeted by the teachers and other students.
I feel like there’s a lot of detail missing here. Yeah, if you were saying like “I just don’t think gay stuff is natural” other people might have said mean things to you, but that would’ve been because you had a shitty opinion. Most right wing views are absolute dog shit, so it’s not surprising people would target them. You wouldn’t be persecuted for “going against the narrative”, you’d be derided for having bad ideas.
For the record very few people on the right actually believe women shouldn’t have the right to vote. Most of them say it as a joke because they know how much it rubs certain people the wrong way. It’s kinda like the guys that complain (jokingly) to their wives that they need to get back in the kitchen and make them a sandwich. Yeah some of them actually mean it and fuck those people, but the grand majority do not view women that way at all.
“I was just joking” is a common top-of-the-funnel for horrors. Explain why it’s funny to make jokes like “women belong in the kitchen” or “well we all know black people are [negative stereotype of your choice]”.
I’ve had several women tell me about how they’d have a date or two with a guy who’d said he was “liberal” or “moderate”, but it quickly became apparent he had horrible views about the world.
To your larger point, there may be people who pretend to be left-wing but secretly hold shitty beliefs, but those people are bad people.
And it sounds like you just want to feel persecuted by people for “going against the narrative” and don’t want to accept that right wing beliefs are, i repeat, dog shit, and make for a worse world.
Eh. I don’t think everyone but me is an NPC. That requires a level of narcissism I just don’t possess.
I do think most people lock into “their side” and then they vehemently defend it without much individual thought.
I do think both “sides” are full of weak willed people who fold and just fall into party lines to support everything they are “supposed to” regardless if they actually feel differently about it.
but he’s losing people. it’s maybe not happening where you are, but i’m seeing it where i am. his base isn’t acting against him yet, but a lot of them have stopped doing free propagation of propaganda for him
I live in California. Most people here loath him. But the few public supporters he had around here still love him.
From the friend groups I have around the country it seems the Trump ladies and lads are having a wonderful time right now.
I feel like these presidential rating polls are always taken from select spots that don’t ever accurately reflect aver public sentiment in any way. Basically just more useless news spam.
The polls I’ve been seeing to react to his speech at Congress were 51% Republican. So they polled mostly republicans to find out how much they love the guy they helped get elected…
If you normalize the numbers, only 30% of respondents “LOVE” what he’s saying. And this is why we have a crisis in this country. Because people dunno what the fuck is going on. Which is surprising because for as much as the right bitches about the media, you sure eat that shit up when it says something you like without even looking at the smaller and/or bigger picture.
They shit on a plate and you just eat it. No questions asked.
I know dehumanizing people you disagree with makes it easier for you to then morally justify doing or saying whatever you want to them, but it doesn’t make it right.
Just because you despise those people doesn’t magically mean they are incapable of experiencing the emotion of love.
I wasnt arguing that many people aren’t extremely unhappy with him right now. I was simply making a point that these polls always seem to be way off.
Like I remember several times when Biden was “doing well” even my super Democrat parents were like “I don’t know who is saying they like this guy”.
Feels like the type of thing where you would need to ask multiple people from multiple places to get even sorta accurate information. If we took a poll on Lemmy he would have like 1% approval rating. If we took it in bumfuck Alabama he would probably have like 90% approval rating.
Feels like the type of thing where you would need to ask multiple people from multiple places to get even sorta accurate information
That’s the benefit of 538 metrics, with utilize a vast range of polls detailed below the graphs.
For other polls such as on policy, I agree that wording and methodology are quite important. For that reason I gravitate towards YouGov and DataForProgress which have had consistently good polling
It wasn’t anything saying Biden was overall good or popular. More like they would read articles mentioning whenever Bidens approval rating would go up and they would get confused who was suddenly happy with him.
I admittedly I have done zero research into how they actually collect the data for those polls. I just always got the impression that they were not actually asking a wide enough variety of people because the data seems consistently ahead or behind of public sentiment.
If I were the conspiracy theory type I might think they use polls in an attempt to change public opinions of the president. By saying hes more or less popular than polled they might get people to change their options one way or another. Because we all know lots of people just want to be on the winning team so they feel like less of a failure in their daily existence. Bandwagining is the term I believe. My step-brother in law is this exact type of conspiracy theorist lol.
The essential ingredients of our propaganda model, or set of news “filters,” fall under the following headings: (I) the size, concentrated ownership, owner wealth, and profit orientation of the dominant mass-media firms; (~) advertising as the primary income source of the mass media; (3) the reliance of the media on information provided by government, business, and “experts” funded and approved by these primary sources and agents of power; (4) “flak” as a means of disciplining the media; and (5) “anticommunism” as a national religion and control mechanism. These elements interact with and reinforce one another. The raw material of news must pass through successive filters, leaving only the cleansed residue fit to print. They fix the premises of discourse and interpretation, and the definition of what is newsworthy in the first place, and they explain the basis and operations of what amount to propaganda campaigns.
They must be polling Lemmy users exclusively for that then lol.
In the real world there are a lot of people who LOVE what he’s doing lol.
Is this the thing where people act like their little suburb in ~Oklahoma (population, 10k) is “the real world” but a major city like NYC (population, 8 million) is some sort of fake world?
No this is me living in one of the most populated cities within the most populated state of the US. I just don’t lock myself into only interacting with people from one political party. Even within deeply blue cities there are Trump supporters everywhere. Most of you just can’t spot them if your lives depended on it because they have spent their entire lives pretending to be one of you.
I mean, there are reasons why right wing people don’t admit it. “I don’t think women should vote” isn’t going to make a lot of friends with women, for example. I don’t “lock myself” into avoiding Republicans, but their beliefs are often reprehensible so we don’t get along.
But also I live in NYC and I’m sure there are trump supporters, but most people recognize him as a scumbag and threat.
I can absolutely promise you without a shadow of a doubt in my entire body that you interact with conservatives/republicans/right leaning people every single day and you have no clue at all. Sure the ones with the red hats and missing teeth are the easiest ones to spot, but they are in more places than the average left leaning person even suspects.
I worked for a VERY left/liberal major college in California. The head of my department was one of these “hidden” conservatives. She played the part of a left wing Democrat manager incredibly well. Had the trans stickers on her laptop and all that jazz. I didn’t even know that she didn’t agree with any of the schools political nonsense until I ran into her at a gun range all decked out in 2A shit lol. Turns out she just leans into that “character” since it’s what works to get ahead in that place. And she was absolutely right.
I know a gay couple that are pretty right leaning, but they learned a long time ago that their own people don’t accept different opinions so they just play pretend whenever they go out into the LGBT spaces and they are their normal Republican selves at home or with their right leaning buddies.
Some people that have opinions that go against the mainstream can chameleon better than most people realize. It doesn’t work so well the other way around. I tried taking one of my very left leaning friends to a heavily conservative skewed event and they stuck out like a sore thumb the entire time even though they attempted to dress up and act the way they thought right leaning people would. People called them out in it a few times and made fun of them lightly, but they didn’t really care.
I’m not even conservative and I learned to shut up and play pretend for the short time I went to college because questioning the professor or showing you don’t go a long with the narrative is a great way to get targeted by the teachers and other students.
For the record very few people on the right actually believe women shouldn’t have the right to vote. Most of them say it as a joke because they know how much it rubs certain people the wrong way. It’s kinda like the guys that complain (jokingly) to their wives that they need to get back in the kitchen and make them a sandwich. Yeah some of them actually mean it and fuck those people, but the grand majority do not view women that way at all.
It is extremely misleading to characterize this as “different opinions”. The republican party is extremely hostile to queer people. We’re not talking about like “i like pop-punk and you like 90s-r&b”.
Also if people really are lying about their beliefs so hard, that’s fucked up. Most of us learn that lying is bad in early childhood.
I feel like there’s a lot of detail missing here. Yeah, if you were saying like “I just don’t think gay stuff is natural” other people might have said mean things to you, but that would’ve been because you had a shitty opinion. Most right wing views are absolute dog shit, so it’s not surprising people would target them. You wouldn’t be persecuted for “going against the narrative”, you’d be derided for having bad ideas.
“I was just joking” is a common top-of-the-funnel for horrors. Explain why it’s funny to make jokes like “women belong in the kitchen” or “well we all know black people are [negative stereotype of your choice]”.
I’ve had several women tell me about how they’d have a date or two with a guy who’d said he was “liberal” or “moderate”, but it quickly became apparent he had horrible views about the world.
To your larger point, there may be people who pretend to be left-wing but secretly hold shitty beliefs, but those people are bad people.
And it sounds like you just want to feel persecuted by people for “going against the narrative” and don’t want to accept that right wing beliefs are, i repeat, dog shit, and make for a worse world.
You have very strong “everyone but me is an NPC” vibes.
Eh. I don’t think everyone but me is an NPC. That requires a level of narcissism I just don’t possess.
I do think most people lock into “their side” and then they vehemently defend it without much individual thought.
I do think both “sides” are full of weak willed people who fold and just fall into party lines to support everything they are “supposed to” regardless if they actually feel differently about it.
You nailed it, so of course you’re getting downvoted lol
but he’s losing people. it’s maybe not happening where you are, but i’m seeing it where i am. his base isn’t acting against him yet, but a lot of them have stopped doing free propagation of propaganda for him
I live in California. Most people here loath him. But the few public supporters he had around here still love him.
From the friend groups I have around the country it seems the Trump ladies and lads are having a wonderful time right now.
I feel like these presidential rating polls are always taken from select spots that don’t ever accurately reflect aver public sentiment in any way. Basically just more useless news spam.
If they were doing that, it probably never would have gotten above -40.
The polls I’ve been seeing to react to his speech at Congress were 51% Republican. So they polled mostly republicans to find out how much they love the guy they helped get elected…
If you normalize the numbers, only 30% of respondents “LOVE” what he’s saying. And this is why we have a crisis in this country. Because people dunno what the fuck is going on. Which is surprising because for as much as the right bitches about the media, you sure eat that shit up when it says something you like without even looking at the smaller and/or bigger picture.
They shit on a plate and you just eat it. No questions asked.
No they don’t, they’re just foaming at the mouth with rabid anger, like the shittiest kid you ever saw break down in public.
In order to love something, you first must be able to love.
I know dehumanizing people you disagree with makes it easier for you to then morally justify doing or saying whatever you want to them, but it doesn’t make it right.
Just because you despise those people doesn’t magically mean they are incapable of experiencing the emotion of love.
Stop being ridiculous.
Right up until the are effected by what he’s doing then it’s all ‘‘I’m against this!!’’
I wasnt arguing that many people aren’t extremely unhappy with him right now. I was simply making a point that these polls always seem to be way off.
Like I remember several times when Biden was “doing well” even my super Democrat parents were like “I don’t know who is saying they like this guy”.
Feels like the type of thing where you would need to ask multiple people from multiple places to get even sorta accurate information. If we took a poll on Lemmy he would have like 1% approval rating. If we took it in bumfuck Alabama he would probably have like 90% approval rating.
I don’t know what polls you’re referring to about Biden, from my understanding he was consistently unpopular since late 2021
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/
That’s the benefit of 538 metrics, with utilize a vast range of polls detailed below the graphs.
For other polls such as on policy, I agree that wording and methodology are quite important. For that reason I gravitate towards YouGov and DataForProgress which have had consistently good polling
It wasn’t anything saying Biden was overall good or popular. More like they would read articles mentioning whenever Bidens approval rating would go up and they would get confused who was suddenly happy with him.
I admittedly I have done zero research into how they actually collect the data for those polls. I just always got the impression that they were not actually asking a wide enough variety of people because the data seems consistently ahead or behind of public sentiment.
If I were the conspiracy theory type I might think they use polls in an attempt to change public opinions of the president. By saying hes more or less popular than polled they might get people to change their options one way or another. Because we all know lots of people just want to be on the winning team so they feel like less of a failure in their daily existence. Bandwagining is the term I believe. My step-brother in law is this exact type of conspiracy theorist lol.
You can read through their methodologies if interested
https://today.yougov.com/about/panel-methodology
https://www.dataforprogress.org/our-methodology
Public sentiment and public opinions are mostly affected by the rhetoric they hear and lived experience (material conditions).
Rhetoric is certainly wielded to affect public sentiment, if you’re interested in learning more about how, you should read Manufacturing Consent
Manufacturing Consent
https://chomsky.info/consent01/