*Edit: I checked some of the stuff more out in detail. While some concepts on this are valid and backed up by sience, others like RSD are not. Use this as a springboard for learning, not as a valid source in itself. Yes it says so in the corner already. But spelling it out might help.
People are more complicated then a diagram from the internet. Never forget that.
Nothing about this is scientific.
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The graph’s existence implies it’s own validity, so even with a disclaimer it’s still disinformation.
I’m gonna go make my own circles, and I’m gonna add “objectively awesome”, “sexually irresistible”, “super duper smart” and “effortless charm”.
Indeed, I would say it’s kind of bollocks. And I’m in at least two of these groups.
I’m just here because I’m gifted and generally a great human. This chart is very accurate.
What if I have stuff from all three circles
These are all spectrums. Experiencing all of these symptoms is normal. Experiencing these symptoms frequently and with such high degree that it impacts your daily life - that is a disorder.
I am not a doctor. This is not medical advice.
For me (who has all 3) the items on that chart aren’t symptoms. They’re personality traits.
I think they fail to be traits when one has no control over their remediation. At which point they become neurological disorders.
You’re a lizard, Mary!
I had suspected being gifted could have helped mask autism and ADHD (a psychiatrist even said “you have a PhD, you do not have ADHD”), but I had never seen it like this and it makes me even more suspicious.
See a different doctor and have them examine you with a spotlight on ADHD symptoms. There’s remarkably few doctors that are good at diagnosing ADHD, especially in certain presentations.
There’s a lot of common misconceptions about ADHD and it’s signs/symptoms, and those misconceptions are not exclusive to people without a PhD. So get a second or third opinion.
I’m on the gifted side, with an more inward presentation of ADHD, it wasn’t until I was 39 that I even spoke to a medical professional about it. I was mediocre in school (often without trying, because I couldn’t focus or sit long enough to do homework or study), and as I’ve gotten older and into my career in a highly technical field, job demands have made it much harder to mask my ADHD symptoms. I started treatment by medication and I’ve been able to sit and focus and do my job better and easier than before. I still have challenges, medication isn’t a cure; medication has simply given me better control over where my focus lies, if I’m not working to direct my energy and focus into the right work, then I’m no better off.
Diagnosis is the first step, so if your doctor isn’t up to speed enough to know the signs and symptoms, find one who is.
Until recently, adult ADHD was not considered to be a thing but evidence has shown that to be very wrong. A lot of people were told that people just grew out of being ADHD, and some do, but not everyone.
Your achievements do not and should not have any bearing on whether you are affected. You can have ADHD and be very well decorated in your achievements, even if you’ve never been properly diagnosed or treated for it.
The main factor here should be whether you think that you may have it, and whether or not having it may be holding you back. Make a choice whether that’s something you believe, and go from there.
I’ll definitely look into it, thank you!
Then you are truly a beautiful animal.
UNO Reverse Card
Super mutant
I might or might not be a turtle practicing martial arts as a hobby.
This chart hits me hard, in so many ways.
There are certain traits common to neurotypicals which I have always considered to be detrimental to not only that person in whom I’ve observed the trait, but to society as a whole – but because I’m the one who is considered “different” I usually find that it’s easier to just keep my trap shut, rather than be browbeaten by NTs for my strong opinions.
As a very obvious example: “Highly developed morals” is tucked away in the corner of the Autism/Giftedness sub-quadrant. I’m going to make the obvious assumption that Ms. Higgins Lee clearly did not intend to imply that only neurodivergents hold that trait… but, anecdotally, I have nonetheless on more than one occasion observed that far too many people who are considered by the larger populace to be “normal” not only appear to lack that trait, but actively despise anyone who holds such high morals.
NTs so often derisively label us as “autistic” or “neurodivergent” or (my personal favorite) “nerds”… like these are all somehow bad things – but maybe society as a whole needs to reevaluate the entire notion of what constitutes “good” and “bad”.
Sorry… am I being too divergent? Should I shut my trap… yet again?
I think “Highly developed morals” in this context doesn’t mean being a “better” person by following a “superior” code of conduct.
It means a higher chance to follow any established code out of principle - even to one’s own detriment - even with zero chance of getting caught cheating - even without getting to have bragging rights on upholding integrity. (But only if that code is properly understood first and deemed reasonable. Arbitrary BS-rules don’t have that effect) There was a study about it, I think, from Bazil?
You’re probably right – but let’s pick that apart for a bit. What you are basically describing is “doing what’s right when nobody is watching.” How is that not a “superior code of conduct,” as you put it?
Social codes don’t have inherent value. They vary over time, places, culture, etc…
Right and wrong are subjective. You can try to debate for moral absolutism, but I won’t respond.
I was describing “doing what one thinks is expected to be the right choice as defined by code without incentives to do so other than the personal desire to uphold the code by making the choice it suggests”
Maybe: More closely adhere to whatever their morals may be. Good, bad, or otherwise.
I can’t tell you how many times I was told I was “too honest”
My best friend is ND (she thinks she’s autistic but hasn’t been diagnosed), I think I’m ND too since I’ve noticed I have a much higher capacity for empathy than basically anyone I know, but we often talk about sense of morality. She has a very strong moral compass and sense of justice. I don’t think it’s so much that NT people lack this sense of justice/morality (obviously there are exceptions but I don’t consider psychopaths that lack morals as NT), so much as it’s much easier for them to ignore to not upset the status quo. This comes out mainly at work. She would burn bridges because she would see major moral issues come up that her coworkers just kind of ignored but it ate at her until she finally said something, often being dismissed as a result unfortunately. It’s a really interesting topic though
@CaptFeather @zarmanto I think autistics might tend to view moral issues deontological rather than utilitaristic. Would match recent science which says autistic‘s prediction models play less of a role in their perception than their senses. NT on the other hand perceive things more in light of prior experiences and thus utilitaristic.
I absolutely agree. She’s a vet tech and since animals being mistreated by her coworkers don’t have a voice she feels it’s her responsibility to speak up for them. I admire her for that, even though it tends to limited the hospitals she can work at.
Very eye opening how many people are in medicine (human and animal) that lack compassion. She told me about an elderly doctor she briefly worked for that was treating a dog who had a fox tail stuck in its law for son long that it ended up coming out the other side. Poor pup had a hole in its paw. Anyway this doc had to make sure there was no debris in the wound so he stuck his finger in the hole without anesthesia. She walked out of the room after yelling at him and quit shortly after. Anyway, my point is her NT coworkers all kinda just stood around and watched and clearly weren’t as bothered by this as she was.
I think “highly developed morals” refers to, for example, internally consistent morals. Calling them highly developed shouldn’t be understood to imply the morals are “better” or more “right”, only that they are consistent. My neurotypical family members have morals and they will preach those morals to literal death. When actual circumstances of life require a sacrifice of them to live within the morals they preach though, they have no difficulty imagining a special exception to those morals.
I actually hate the term neurodivergent or neurodiverse, it’s so tentative and annoying. I’ve been called crazy my entire life, they might as well just stick with that - it’s clearly what they’re implying.
@feedum_sneedson @zarmanto In German „crazy“ is translated as „verrückt“. The literal meaning is „disarranged“ or „shifted“ - so just a deviation from the norm. Sounds not to bad to me, I like being called „verrückt“.
I always think of probability distributions in this context. Taking something like the bell curve for instance. Being bang-on precisely average is actually very unlikely. Some degree of “divergence” or “variation” from the mean is in fact the far more likely state. Even taking the typical +/- 1 standard deviation, which comprises
… that leavesthat do not fall into the middle or normal range.That’s a huge amount of people that may all be very different from each other, even more different from each other than they are from “the average”, but are all very different from “normal”. IMO, it’s not appreciated enough how much variation is baked into anything statistical.
My 6yo was watching Avatar 2 for the first time and the scene where the humans are burning down the forests, and he immediately asks me “how can there so much fire if people have to wear masks to breathe?”
Last year we saw a pickup merging on the highway with a balloon arch in the back and he immediately realized what was about to happen.
He’s very empathetic (he is vegetarian and can’t fathom eating meat. He literally cries over the meat section of a supermarket, though he’s a bit dramatic). And he’s always asking me about complex things like black holes and gravity and inertia and tectonics.
Is he…gifted? How do we find out?
In Ontario, Canada, if they still do it the same way as they did in the 80s/90s, they do a test in grade 3 which can determine giftedness. After the test I was sent to do a psycho-educational assessment, then sent off to another school with a gifted program. I was in gifted classes until the end of grade 10. I definitely made some great friends in that program, but I think I would have been better off being taught how to survive in the real world, compared to the experience of having your own special class. There is no “special class” in the workplace. Or, you can probably just go directly to a psychologist for a psycho-educational assessment, but there is usually a cost involved.
Schools don’t teach how to live anyway, so you missed nothing
I mean instead of the effort spent on a gifted program, they could have put effort into helping neurodivergent kids to develop strategies to exist and thrive within a class (world) designed for neurotypicals.
If you made friends, it taught you social skills.
The problem with gifted students is that they can struggle connecting with those who don’t enjoy abstract thinking, theory, etc, but at the same time it was one period of your school day, you had all the others including recess and lunch to learn that.
Not talking about social skills, and when I went to school, gifted classes were full time, from grades 4-8.
That seems like a really bad idea unless you had a very large school or that was just what they called honors classes. My class was pretty average at 200 students and there were only 5 kids in the gifted program.
That’s a good question to ask your local pediatrician.
Ha, yeah I was one of them. Be kind to him.
Posted this a couple weeks ago in /AuDHD. I was wondering how long it would take to circulate and be reposted here. 😄
Do you know where it’s supposed to be reposted to next? 🤨
We already had adhd and autism so obviously !rickandmorty and !archlinux are next for the gifted people.
Remember to add the @instance.tld so we can click the link :)
Thanks for reminding me where I downloaded it a few weeks ago :3
<3
I’ve always felt strongly identified with parts of the autism and ADHD symptoms but not with all of either so I always assumed I was just self-diagnosing or was simply a bit too close with both spectrums without fully being into either or something like that. It’s hard to discern also because I’ve been depressed for some time and I’m asexual so sometimes I just attribute some of my non-typical traits to that.
But in the last 5 years I feel like I’m deteriorating at a growing rate and doing even the smallest things is incredibly hard for me, even things that I used to like like reading or playing videogames, not to say things like working or intense socializing. I know that getting an official diagnosis is the way to go but I’m in South America where the infrastructure/system for all this is even lesser than in Europe/USA and I’m broke anyways. My current goal is to work to get enough money to survive and get the diagnosis, even if it feels like am working at 15% capacity.
In the meantime, does anyone know of some kind of scientific test or resource that might help me clear my mind in regards to what I am/have? I promise I’ll get an official diagnosis as soon as I can but I feel like even identifying that I probably have a ton of ADHD or whatever it is and getting some commonly-held tips about my particular condition could help me lots right now.
Shot in the dark, not a doctor yadda yadda
Sounds like it could be burnout. (not only workaholics can get one) You can try some mitigation strategies for that and see if they help you.
In fact, autistic burnout is a thing that can happen to autistic folks (as opposed to occupational burnout)
If you have trauma, it could also be cptsd.
I was formally diagnosed with ADHD in February this year, but due to suspicions I spent a long time (with the help of my family) trying different supplements or diet related things, etc. The thing we settled on is a supplement of Citicoline (which at least where I am is available at most pharmacies/chemists). It took a couple weeks to settle in, but for me it was a night and day difference in terms of emotional/mental stability. Even now I’m on a proper Ritalin regime, I still find the Citicoline helps with that part. To clarify, I didn’t find it explicitly helped with focusing, but that mental and especially emotional stability was life changing, and helped me on the road to getting more formal treatment.
Unpopular opinion, but a great way to treat many neurological conditions is a ketogenic diet. It works great with intermittent fasting/time restricted eating.
Low budget carnivore is very cheap and surprisingly healthy. It’s also guaranteed to be ketogenic and it’s easy to prepare the food.
The ketones that your body produces have a protective effect in your neurons that can help them recover if they are being damaged by inflammation or a host of other things.
Childhood trauma is highly correlated with a host of digestive and inflammatory conditions. So if you had any trauma growing up, it’s even more likely.
If you’re unwilling to change your diet, intense resistance training (weight lifting) and sleep hygiene are also huge.
I personally recommend looking into free lifting programs that are simple like stronglifts 5x5. Melatonin for sleep (start very low dosage and adjust up if it doesn’t work - stop after a week and see if you still need it). Also Sam Harris’s meditation app which is free if you email and ask for access because you’re struggling financially. Meditation is great on it’s own but it will also help with sleep.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the label, just focus on your symptoms. Impulse issues, restlessness, difficulty relaxing, difficulty falling/staying asleep. Emotional regulation issues. Unsafe decisions. Etc.
What I find interesting about this graphic is that many traits that don’t overlap should:
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Autism and ADHD both need routine, the former by nature, and the latter to nurture better outcomes
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Motor skills crossover in gifted kids and autism
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People with autism famously do NOT NOTICE details, so it’s strange to see that highlighted
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I think easily bored can fit in all 3 shared traits
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Hyper-focus is a crossover for Autism and ADHD
Since ADHD and Autism literally crossover commonly in the same human being, I’d think there would be more shared traits than is listed above
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I feel attacked.
Oh god I’m definitely esaily bored
This is quite revealing. I’m hyper focused on some of my past and present behavior now and feel like a damn hypochondriac at this point.
ADHD here, and I think level 1 ASD (psych appointment few weeks).
ADHD – “Ability to respond quickly in crisis situations/emergencies”? What?
Honestly, this is when I’m at my highest functioning. Unfortunately that means it’s easy to get addicted to stress.
ADHD is great in a crisis. The adrenaline spikes hard, everything gets super focused, shit gets done. It’s like a double simulant dose right in your bloodstream.
It’s “common” traits. Not “must have” traits. or is the confusion about interpreting what a “crisis situation/emergency” is in this context?
confusion about interpreting what a “crisis situation/emergency” is in this context
Something like hyperfocus as the deadline approaches?
Literal emergencies will fall into that category as well, but it is broader than just the stuff ER-people do for a living.
These are things like:
- being able to go from asleep to ready and out the door in under 5 minutes if the reason to do so is important enough.
- remaining calm and levelheaded when everyone around is panicking over something.
- deciding on a strategy and executing it flawlessly in response to any sudden change.
- and yes, doing homework last minute and still getting acceptable grades for it also counts.
Basically, if you get into a mental state of immediate urgency, your executive function runs on adrenaline alone. And suddenly you’re better than ever before at just. getting. stuff. done. - but not for very long.
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I know I had ADHD in my childhood, diagnosed, medicated for a while, but was told I “grew out of it” in my teens. Not sure if that’s the right term, but I was indeed told I no longer have it.
Been doing some research, and thinking more and more about whether I have mild autism/asbergers. Does anyone know any reliable and discrete ways of figuring out if you might be on the spectrum or not? Something I can keep to myself at least for the time being? Or is asking my doctor the only way? Are specialists that specifically assess autism spectrum a thing? And is it possible to go to one of them without having to be referred by my primary care doctor?
I was recommended https://embrace-autism.com/autism-tests/ and it’s given me quite a bit of information about myself. Wish I could help more. Keep reaching out and eventually the right answer will find you! Good luck on your journey. Don’t give up.
Thank you so much!
Hat trick
Like 90% of these apply to me, though I’ve somehow failed every ADHD assessment I’ve ever taken.
Everybody’s a little ADHD, and everybody’s a little crazy. You have to reach a particular threshold before you qualify as “clinical.”
If you are able to function independently, then you probably won’t be clinically diagnosed even if you have some struggles here and there.
Consider the difference between a person with OCD who feels really uncomfortable when they aren’t able to perform their compulsions vs. a person who suffers a complete mental breakdown and loses all ability to self-regulate for hours or days.
I have an autism diagnosis, and I’m pretty sure I have ADHD as well. Literally almost everything on that chart applies to me in a substantial capacity. I’ve never sought a clinical diagnosis as an adult, but if I were to I’m fairly certain I would get one.
The ADHD assessments I had in school were all the stare at a screen and hit a button when a dot appears kind. I think they were expecting me to get bored and mess up, but that’s the kind of task I’m good a hyper-focusing on short periods of time. One time the assessor told me I couldn’t have ADHD because my average reaction time was one of the best she’d ever seen. I think that type of assessment is fundamentally flawed.
If you are able to function independently, then you probably won’t be clinically diagnosed even if you have some struggles here and there.
I disagree. I have official diagnoses for both ADHD and ASD and am mostly functional most of the time. If I earned enough, I’d be living on my own. I was diagnosed as an adult within the past few years while working nearly full time and I made it on time to each of the several appointments that went into getting that diagnosis. If what you say is true, I doubt the assessor would have been willing to give a diagnosis.
If I earned enough, I’d be living on my own
Then you don’t, strictly speaking, disagree with what the other person said. We’re merely debating over the level of functionality you operate at.
You’re independent on most issues, but you’re financially dependent on others. So your functioning in society may be lower than most people, but you are “high functioning” for somebody with ND.
I’m currently working full time in web development. Cost of living is just crazy compared to what I’ve been able to find for suitable employment, and while it doesn’t help that the types of work I tolerate well are perhaps limited by neurodivergence, I don’t think it’s the primary factor.
But that’s beside the point. I was more just saying that there are definitely people who can present as though they’re doing about as well as you could expect of a person with their background without considering neurodivergence, but still qualify for a diagnosis. Or put another way, it’s possible, in some cases, to work hard enough to fly under the radar and not even recognize it yourself. I didn’t have any issues with independence, really, until I hit an intense burnout from extreme levels of overwork and overall stress. I wouldn’t be shocked to learn of others in my position, so I’m hesitant to suggest someone may not resonate fully with the experience just because they haven’t hit their limit yet.
Same, but I’ve been placed far onto the spectrum by every Asperger’s / autism assessment I’ve taken.
