I wish TCL would stop referring to it as electronic paper, it’s a matte LCD with some desaturated modes for eye comfort.
for me, the major selling point of a true e-paper display is sunlight readability, if your “electronic paper” LCD cant match e-ink, then it’s not good enough.
The main E-ink patents are due to expire in 2026, so we should see some rapid development after that.
the major selling point of a true e-paper display is sunlight readability
Yeah, the whole “It behaves like an actual paper page for all relevant purposes” is kinda important to an e-ink display.
I recently bought a Boox Palma, which is a phone-size Android device with a real E-Ink display.
It’s not a phone (WiFi/Bluetooth only, no mobile radio), and with 4-bit greyscale it’s definitely an adjustment to use with a lot of apps (it has per-app DPI & contrast controls to help), but they’ve done a lot of work on the refresh rate to make it feel responsive.
It even has midrange-phone specs (SD 6xx series CPU, 6GB RAM, 4Ah battery), with full Google Play, so it’s a quite usable Android device overall. Like most modern E-Ink devices, has a CCT warm-to-cool frontlight, so great for night-time use.
Now would I want to use it as my only, everyday device (if it was a phone too)? Probably not. Could I? Almost certainly.
Colour E-Ink is still quite limited (in contrast, and resolution), but I expect the patents on that are quite a bit newer and we won’t be seeing so much movement in that area so soon.
I really wanted YotaPhone to succeed. Both a normal screen and a very very battery friendly e-ink for reading etc for hours…
I love my Boox Note 3. It’s am older device but still gets updates lots of tweaks for tuning the display on a per app basis, runs Google apps etc. I use it mainly as a reader for books and manga but also for drawing notes and browsing the Web.
Ooh, looks interesting. Though the size would be a disadvantage to me—I can imagine some situations where using an ereader is acceptable where a phone would not be, and other people won’t be able to tell them apart this way.
Colour eink is still very limited, but can’t they make eink (semi-)transparent? Just put eink above the usual LCD/oled and enable/disable them as needed?
Honestly if the Palma would have cellular radio it would check all my phone need boxes.
Nevermind that, an approach like what Sharp and the old PDAs did with transflective displays would be pretty neat too. But I suspect what’ll happen is that they’ll be called out for not providing “rich colours and deep blacks”.
OLED over transflective, do you get all the bright colors but it can go transparent and use the sunlight readable and low power screen when that makes sense
Transflexive displays can work, but they arent as easy on the eyes as e-paper and they have poor contrast in direct sunlight.
For me the main selling point of epaper is that the device can write to it then turn entirely off, for potentially multiple weeks of battery on a charge.
For me the biggest selling point of e-ink is for reading late at night. Since it’s not backlit it’s better for sleep, I think? Easier on the eyes, anyways.
What I dislike about phones these days is notches in the screen and my hands cramping up from the huge screen size combined with how slim the device is.
I just want to be able to hold my phone in one hand and control it that way like I could do with an iphone 4s, though would prefer an android phone.
What I dislike is the constant stripping of features lately - between OEMs stripping stuff like SD card support, and box contents like ear buds and wallwarts; and Google stripping core features like the ability to cat system logs… It’s getting fucking dumb.
These companies learned their lesson with the open BIOS of pc’s preventing them from really controlling DRM.
Android, not having a standardized BIOS, really gives them the opportunity to provide devices they can fully control.
If you can’t unlock boot, you can’t root, so you can’t fully control the device.
That’s the long-term goal: get people used to devices they don’t actually control.
Lots of people already don’t know the massive difference between using a full desktop app and a limited mobile app, many actually prefer the mobile because it’s simpler! (I admit I do too, for certain use cases and maybe day-to-day use, but not for all use).
And then all the people who argue against having root access on your own device. 🤦♂️
There are good arguments for much of what Google does to improve Android security, it’s just very frustrating to know their real agenda is to lock us out.
Fortunately, businesses will always need MDM (Mobile Device Management), which will require root access in some fashion, and there are already Open Source/low cost/free versions of MDM out there, and plenty of smart devs always working on root, like Magisk by topjohnwu and the new KernelSU by tiann (which gets root at the kernel level!)
It really sucks how fucking stupid people have gotten. The complacency and supporting of companies stripping away access to things you’re selling out big money on? It’s like ownership pricing for a rental experience.
Then when nobody can repair the stuff but the OEM’s they’ll be shocked at the cost and blame the people who used to repair the items for not doing enough to push back or something stupid.
I frustratingly have to agree.
I’ve been a privacy advocate for 20+ years, and people kept calling me paranoid. I may be, but (as my hillbilly uncle would say), “ya gotta look at who’s ox is gettin’ gored” (kind of a redneck version of no such thing as a free lunch).
No one does something without an angle (that is businesses, and many people too).
I post about rooting and people reply with “you don’t need root, it’s a security risk”. Right, because all the Linux and windows boxes I’ve touched over the years, with root access, are insecure 🤦♂️.
This is my phone. Not Google’s, nor anyone else’s.
Too many people are content viewing anything as complex as a toaster as magic. They just want the results.
“that’s a security risk”
My reasonse is always along the lines of “Yeah and? It’s a pocket-sized PC with PC-like specs being sold at PC-like prices. I’d like my workhorse to be functional. I can monitor my device as best I can, and vet the things I install.”
Yep.
I keep telling them that security isn’t one thing, it’s layers.
There are many unrooted phones that have had malware installed courtesy of the Play store… I’ve never had any, and none of my pc’s since about 1990 have never had a virus.
For as long as Magisk has been going, that’s been my root strategy. I’m new to hearing about KernelSU though. Any advantages?
I’m not the best person to ask, but I think the difference is where each obtains root perms.
Magisk gets root by modifying the boot image, while KernelSU modifies the Linux Kernel. I think being in the kernel it’ll be harder to detect and it’ll be more stable, protected from system updates.
Plus the kernel is more constant across devices, it really doesn’t change much from what I understand. My boot image is different per version of Android, but I think the kernel doesn’t change.
Most Android updates take place in what I’d call the Android Subsystem, since it’s really a shell on top of Linux.
That’s what I’ve been able to glean so far, but I’m no developer.
I like SD cards and headphone jacks, but I don’t quite understand the fuss over box contents. If you need another pair of low-end earbuds at the time you’re buying a new phone, just buy them. If it helps with the mental accounting, consider whether you’d buy the same phone if it cost $15 more.
It doesn’t make sense to me to include earbuds and chargers in every box. That’s wasteful, and everybody ends up of drawers full of unused shit.
This is us. Up til recently they just gave out too much stuff. At this point I have given chargers away to homeless people because I have so many. My husband and I buy phones every two years generally (because android’s update BS until now). It’s ridiculous. And we never used the headphones when they came in the box.
My earbuds were replaced before the end of my phone’s life. Also, my kids who just got phones for the first time now need to also shell out money for a wall wart and ear buds? Considering there seems to be $0.00 savings passed on to us from all the shit they’ve cut out, it’s a bit ridiculous.
Maybe there should be a voucher for free earbuds and charger, but I think it’s a waste for most people.
I totally agree with that.
You should check out the Sony lineup. They still do phones without notches and the size is pretty comfortable for one hand usage.
How’s the ROM support on them?
Pretty good actually, though about as much support for the smaller phones as they represent in market share.
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#sony
Though I’ve become a fan of DivestOS recently because they enable you to run Google Services (well, MicroG) as a user app, so it doesn’t have system permissions. Makes a good stepping stone to help my friends and family move away from Google.
Check out www.gsmarena.com and www.phonearena.com to find phones that meet your requirements. Their search tools are impressive. You can filter by all sorts of attributes.
SD cards and wired headphones too if that’s your thing
Take a look at the Asus zenfone 10, I’ve got me eye on that when this 6t finally gives up the first
At the moment asus really is the last noteworthy manufacturer of phones that can be considered as small and even there were rumours they might stop…
Makes me glad I bought my iPhone 13 mini when I did. It’s the perfect size but sadly also the last of its kind.
Just looked, their smallest phone (Zenphone 9,if my search is worth anything) is slightly larger than a Pixel 5, (to be fair it’s narrower and thinner, which can make a big difference, especially being narrower).
Granted the Pixel is 2 years older, but I’d bet that running Lineage very few people would know. I run a 2017 phone that with Lineage is faster than any phone in my circle. It’s rather shocking to see the difference a leaner OS combined with some optimization can make (some kernel tweaks make it responsive while improving battery life over stock settings).
The Pixel is just under half the price of the Z9.
I keep trying to find a better phone than the Pixel, (smaller, more battery, more ram, something), but it’s really hard to beat. Then again, my requirements aren’t everyone’s: camera just has to work, I prefer plastic over “nice” materials, don’t need SD card, etc.
If I could run Android on iPhone hardware, an iPhone 6 would be awesome. Edit: wow the 13 mini is smaller than the six. Even better!
Yep. I’ve been on iPhone for years and the tininess of the mini just sealed the deal for the next 3-5 years (or however long it‘ll last)
The problem with this is that everyone has different hands. Personally, large phones sit in my hand better. The phone I felt the most comfortable holding was a note 20 ultra. I have really long fingers though, so it isn’t for everyone, but I really don’t want to see all phones go back to being small. They do need some small varieties though.
The problem I have is not so much how well they sit in my hand, but if I can reach everything on screen with one hand without having to shift the phone around or resting it somewhere. I have huge, way above average pianist hands (they make Xbox controllers look small). I can’t do it higher than ~6.5 inches, and it’s way easier under 6.2.
I believe there is an app that helps with that. From what I remember you could do some gesture to get a cursor in the top part of the screen so you could press that.
Even then, the large phones are so flat thin, human fingers can’t bend at those angles easily. Thick cases generally help with that, but if the phone were a normal size, it would be easier to hold, could have a larger battery, and not need a case.
Also, since the manufacturers are all anti-bezel now, there’s no safe place to set one’s fingers without delicately holding the phone by both sides or side+back in some balancing act. Razr 5G 2020 was a neat combo, pretty thin borders, (but a notch), but the traditional old Razr bump at the bottom for nostalgia, which gave the phone a chin one could easily grab onto without fear of hitting touch buttons.
These companies quest for a thin sheet of touchscreen as the entire device and completely discard the fact that human hands have to interact with the device.
I wonder if they make them so rediculously flat to fit in pants pockets.
You are right. How could I forget about that.
I do wish I could have a phone that is comfortable but not unusable like those really tiny ones.
Honestly I love the Pixel Fold because it’s so short. You can actually use it with one hand when closed without contorting.
Interesting. I didn’t consider a folding phone before. Maybe this is the solution I’ve been looking for.
Lower clarity, contrast, sharpness. That’s roughly it.
And yet, owners of the high end Steam Decks love it because it makes the Deck more usable outside.
Then again there are people who don’t buy the higher end steam decks cause they want a fully gloss screen
Good that choice exists.
Pfftttsshttt… Outside. Kids these days.
Hahahaha, take my upvote, dammit!
Been using matte screen protectors on my phones for the last 5+ years. I’m disgusted every time I have to touch a glossy screen with all those finger tracks on it. Matte feels better and looks better in bright environments. For dimmer environments the lack in brightness won’t be much of a factor either. I highly recommend it.
Yes, same, this is the way to go! Way better than the screen itself being matte. Just get the matte screen ptotector.
Are there matte glass protectors? I ordered one for my P8 that is just a film one. It is actually arriving today
Maybe for some models? IDK I haven’t seen one but I’ve noticed there is a much smaller selection of matte protectors in general vs glossy.
I don’t think there’s any reason they can’t.
I’ve never seen one, so idk… what’s good about glass? I’ve never understood using glass as a protection layer tbh.
Glass protects better than a thin layer of plastic against drops
I wish there was a modern phone with an e-paper display on the back. E-paper is great for books and reading the newspaper.
Unfortunately, my eReader doesn’t really support modern web browsers, so it can’t do news articles…
All of that notwithstanding, I’d still prefer a matte display.
Is have to see what it was like in person, but the fact it won’t block off a bit of the screen when the screens directly facing
ita light source is a big benefit.
It does though. Installing a matte screen protector was one of the very first things I did after I got it.
Put a matte screen protector on my iPad a few years ago to cut down on the glare and that was it, everything had to be that way from then on.
Downside is you do lose some image crispness but it’s so very worth it for the huge reduction in glare.
Also matte protectors aren’t nearly as popular so there’s a lot smaller selection to chose from.
I’d take it.
Just buy a phone that is not shit instead and apply a matte glass screen protector.
Thanks, will do.
Great, thanks!
