• andrew@lemmy.stuart.fun
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    1 year ago

    The cover photo is a jet plane but remember, US$140,000/year is the threshold they’re quoting in the article so the reality is more like a decent car or two and a house in a nicer area will drop you into that range.

    • Clent@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      1% of the world’s population is 80,000,000 people.

      There is too much variance in a population that large to make any reasonable statements or suggest adjustments.

      We already know that people living on pennies per day aren’t the problem.

      • P1r4nha@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        But shouldn’t it be easier to adjust the lifestyle of 80 million people rather than 8 billion?

        And there are a few easy ones almost everyone in the 1% can chip in: reduce meat consumption, don’t fly, buy local and don’t buy single use items

        • Pipoca@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          In the US, 7% of transportation emissions are commercial air travel, while 58% are passenger cars.

          Flying is worse per-trip than driving, but car centric infrastructure is worse than flying.

          Similarly, what you eat is way more important than how far it traveled. Most agricultural emissions happen at the farm.

          It’s actually better for the environment to grow tomatoes in Florida or Mexico and ship them to NYC in the fall or winter than to grow tomatoes locally in a heated greenhouse.

        • nicetomeetyouIMVEGAN@lemmings.world
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          1 year ago

          The problem here is that this research works from a Capitalist understanding of responsibility. That is to say that Besos is responsible for the emissions of Amazon, musk for space x, etc. Which means absolutely nothing. It’s a bullshit number.

          • P1r4nha@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            How else would you account for it? Am I responsible for 0.001% of Amazon’s CO2 emissions because I order sometimes from them?

              • P1r4nha@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                Poor Besos cannot decide what and how he delivers. He just needs to deliver to anybody who posts an order on the website someone put up on the internet. Kinda like Santa?

                • rchive@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  He can decide, and his middle managers can decide, and you can also decide by choosing to shop from somewhere else.

                  • P1r4nha@feddit.de
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                    1 year ago

                    How do I know which shop is the best? I don’t. Neoliberal fantasies only work with an informed consumer, just like democracies only work with educated voters.

                    That’s why you can’t make consumers responsible for the emissions the suppliers emit.

              • P1r4nha@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                I don’t really have knowledge nor control over how green Amazon’s delivery is. If you shift responsibility to a party that cannot make well-informed decisions, you kind of end up with the mess we currently have, no?

                The whole idea of money not having a memory is a huge scheme of capitalists to get out of any kind of responsibility.

                • SCB@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Amazon has the best logistics infrastructure of any company in the world. It is literally the most efficient system of moving goods ever known to mankind.

                  You are responsible for the carbon footprint of things you purchase, yes. This is why things like carbon taxes with dividends are such good ideas.

                • nicetomeetyouIMVEGAN@lemmings.world
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                  1 year ago

                  You are the person to set in motion the apparatus necessary to accomplish the task that you wanted to be accomplished.

                  Yes you live in this late stage capitalist hellscape with the rest of us, but that doesn’t absolve you from being critical and making the best decisions in it.

                  • P1r4nha@feddit.de
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                    1 year ago

                    The point is that the decision can’t be good because no company discloses the environmental impact of a single product. So even if I had choices, I can only choose based on price. My only hope is that efficient logistics are also cheaper and better for the environment.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            This is absolutely a dog shit example of math, but in no way is anyone involved at all employing capitalist understandings of anything.

            This entire study is a fiction designed to point the finger at a small subset of people.

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                I think they’re arguing entirely from ideology, but that the ideology is not at all “pro capital”

                • nicetomeetyouIMVEGAN@lemmings.world
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                  1 year ago

                  That’s a mischaracterization of what it means to argue from ideology. They only have to accept the idea that ownership of the means of production means ownership of the pollution from the means of production.

                  Which is a. Very common and b. The only explanation through which this research makes sense without attributing malice.

                  • SCB@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    The research is just bad science and sought from the start to attribute climate change to as few people as possible.

                    “Scientists say it’s your average joe driving to work who is killing the world” doesn’t sell.

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        People living in pennies per day are actually a huge part of the problem, because they by definition live in industrializing communities.

        • Clent@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          No. That’s just something you made up.

          “Industrializing nations” are easier to address than the nations that have already industrialized.

          The momentum behind existing industry is huge. Like a coal industry that is difficult to dismantle because of regressive political leaders.

          For countries with no existing infrastructure it’s cheaper to go green than not.

          Capitalists demand a return on their polluting industrial investments annd are the majority of the problem.

          If an auto manufacturers started from zero today, they wouldn’t be creating gasoline engines.

          Zero emission aircraft are next but that doesn’t mean the airlines are going to scrap all their existing aircraft engines and the pollution they cause.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I didn’t just make this up. This is a huge problem facing the world because those nations have a right to improve for their people (and many, myself included, view developed nations as having an obligation to help these nations modernize), but we cannot allow for them to fully modernize using the processes we did or global warming is dramatically exacerbated.

            This is a real, urgent, and complex problem, and real life is not a game of Civilization. You can’t just start Congo further along down your tech tree and expect them to be totally green.

    • flames5123@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Exactly. I wonder what the top 0.5% emit, or the top 0.1% emit. 140k is just a married couple living in a city. But people that live in a city can take public transit or walk to the store, therefore they won’t be contributing that much to these huge emissions.