People didn’t talk about wanting a sex change, but loads of us hated our bodies and wanted to wake up in different ones. Given the option and institutional support and reassurance that transitioning would help us, many of us probably would have been convinced to do so
This is actually one of my primary concerns regarding transgenderism in the modern day. I think it’s a tool in the toolbelt for when it’s necessary. I also think it’s a tool we reach for much more often than is necessary.
The comparable example I like to give is adhd. It isn’t binary. You don’t just have it or don’t have it. Some people have symptoms that need no intervention. Some people have symptoms but are misdiagnosed as adhd. Other people get by with therapy alone. Yet others find medication necessary to be functional.
Giving gender affirming care to all people with gender or body dysphoria is like giving high dose Adderall to all people who have trouble paying attention in history class. It’s the nuclear option, and you’re using it on someone who may not even have adhd, or may not require such a strong intervention.
I know everyone hates this word, but starting with more conservative treatments first is the norm throughout healthcare for exactly this reason. We’ve made an exception for transgender people for political reasons, not scientific ones.
You already have to go through tons of therapy and other conservative treatments before you get a sex change operation. That exists TODAY. Same with abortion.
No one can get it on a whim. Doctors require requisites to make sure it’s right for you, and it should stay up to the doctors’ discretion.
It’s nonsense saying it’s overused as if doctors and the patient don’t know what they’re about to go through.
I’m not the guy you responded to, but I have a similar concern…not with institutional gender affirming care, I don’t know enough about that to comment on it. My concern is with the social aspect, especially with kids. There’s no such thing as a feminine man anymore; now if you’re anything less than hypermasculine there’s pressure to announce yourself as trans. It’s silly, and it’s a fad, and I hope (and assume) our medical/therapy professionals are willing and able to see past it.
This isn’t the divide between the Catholic and Protestant church.
Socially, strict gender roles are losing relevance. A well groomed man with long hair is just that. Nobody thinks it means he wants to be a woman unless they harbor the misogynistic opinion that women are defined by long hair.
What you’ve said doesn’t really seem to me to be true in the slightest. There are many, many role models of feminine men around (F1nnst3r for a very obvious example), and the nuances of gender expression allow this so much more than in the past. We have clear conceptual differences between feminine men, non binary people, and trans women, and people are more than allowed to fit into any category they like (or build their own!).
It’s silly that this reasonable comment is being mass downvoted. Things that permanently change people should be done carefully and with a lot of safety checks. We can all agree on that.
For me all of this gets more important the younger the kid is.
I have no bone in this fight, but people shouting like we have all of this 100% figured out is simply wrong.
In fact what I’m seeing is, conservatives are anti trans, which is 100% wrong, so liberals are going 180 against them and claiming everyone should be transitioning.
I was listening to a discussion where a gay man was saying that when he was young, he might have been pushed to transition because he was effeminate, when really he was just gay and is now a happy gay man.
Anyway, I wish people would just come off the extremes and we bring in nuance and humility. Admitting that there is a lot about the human body and mind that we simply don’t understand yet.
Mind if I ask where you heard liberals are jumping to that extreme? If you talk to random people on the street, I doubt you’d find more than maybe 1/1000 people expressing that view (and even that many would be surprisingly high).
The right wing generally doesn’t want people to gain new freedoms. Conservatism, fascism, etc. are hierarchical ideologies. They require people to exist in a chain of command, where lower status people are controlled by those with higher status. One of the biggest tricks used to keep people playing this game is fear. Exaggerated or completely false claims are made and spread amongst their base. “The left wants to take all of your guns!” “The left wants you to worship satan!” “The gays want to …” etc.
Generally, all the left wants is for everyone to get to live their life without arbitrary restrictions/judgement. If a news source is claiming that “the left” wants to control how someone lives their life, take it with a huge grain of salt. All too often, the bold claims coming from the right are distorted confessions. And if real people on the left are calling for a restriction, the intent is to apply it to everyone, themselves included, and there is a reasoned argument behind that conviction.
many of us probably would have been convinced to do so
No one is being convinced of anything. People are being enabled to live as their true selves.
I also think it’s a tool we reach for much more often than is necessary.
There is no data to back this up, nor is there any reason to think it’s true. Trans people, even just considering the youngest generation, remain a very small percentage of the general population.
Giving gender affirming care to all people with gender or body dysphoria is like giving high dose Adderall to all people who have trouble paying attention in history class. It’s the nuclear option, and you’re using it on someone who may not even have adhd, or may not require such a strong intervention.
Any medical treatment should not be prescribed without a doctor’s due consideration. Gender affirming care, at any age, is no different. There is not a nuclear option available or used for minors expressing they want gender affirming care.
I know everyone hates this word, but starting with more conservative treatments first is the norm throughout healthcare for exactly this reason. We’ve made an exception for transgender people for political reasons, not scientific ones.
No such exception has been made, certainly not for trans kids.
So, that’s why the comment has some downvotes. And probably should have more. The comment isn’t a differing opinion; it’s factually incorrect.
True, I don’t know any trans people directly, but i certainly wonder if getting the transition is good for them.
If i can’t see people discuss both points of view because it’s “transphobic”, i’m forced to draw my own conclusions.
Just to be 100% clear, I am gay and have had my fair share of biggotry, so i know what it’s like. But the fact that i need this disclaimer is concerning to me.
I believe that overprotective censorship is responsible for a lot problems we have in 2023. People cannot learn if they cannot ask questions without being told they are evil.
That was pretty much my point. I’m 100% for bodily autonomy and freedom, but when it comes to children can we just take a minute to discuss things like adults without being labeled one thing or another.
People didn’t talk about wanting a sex change, but loads of us hated our bodies and wanted to wake up in different ones. Given the option and institutional support and reassurance that transitioning would help us, many of us probably would have been convinced to do so
This is actually one of my primary concerns regarding transgenderism in the modern day. I think it’s a tool in the toolbelt for when it’s necessary. I also think it’s a tool we reach for much more often than is necessary.
The comparable example I like to give is adhd. It isn’t binary. You don’t just have it or don’t have it. Some people have symptoms that need no intervention. Some people have symptoms but are misdiagnosed as adhd. Other people get by with therapy alone. Yet others find medication necessary to be functional.
Giving gender affirming care to all people with gender or body dysphoria is like giving high dose Adderall to all people who have trouble paying attention in history class. It’s the nuclear option, and you’re using it on someone who may not even have adhd, or may not require such a strong intervention.
I know everyone hates this word, but starting with more conservative treatments first is the norm throughout healthcare for exactly this reason. We’ve made an exception for transgender people for political reasons, not scientific ones.
You already have to go through tons of therapy and other conservative treatments before you get a sex change operation. That exists TODAY. Same with abortion.
No one can get it on a whim. Doctors require requisites to make sure it’s right for you, and it should stay up to the doctors’ discretion.
It’s nonsense saying it’s overused as if doctors and the patient don’t know what they’re about to go through.
I’m not the guy you responded to, but I have a similar concern…not with institutional gender affirming care, I don’t know enough about that to comment on it. My concern is with the social aspect, especially with kids. There’s no such thing as a feminine man anymore; now if you’re anything less than hypermasculine there’s pressure to announce yourself as trans. It’s silly, and it’s a fad, and I hope (and assume) our medical/therapy professionals are willing and able to see past it.
This isn’t the divide between the Catholic and Protestant church.
Socially, strict gender roles are losing relevance. A well groomed man with long hair is just that. Nobody thinks it means he wants to be a woman unless they harbor the misogynistic opinion that women are defined by long hair.
What you’ve said doesn’t really seem to me to be true in the slightest. There are many, many role models of feminine men around (F1nnst3r for a very obvious example), and the nuances of gender expression allow this so much more than in the past. We have clear conceptual differences between feminine men, non binary people, and trans women, and people are more than allowed to fit into any category they like (or build their own!).
It’s silly that this reasonable comment is being mass downvoted. Things that permanently change people should be done carefully and with a lot of safety checks. We can all agree on that.
For me all of this gets more important the younger the kid is.
I have no bone in this fight, but people shouting like we have all of this 100% figured out is simply wrong.
In fact what I’m seeing is, conservatives are anti trans, which is 100% wrong, so liberals are going 180 against them and claiming everyone should be transitioning.
I was listening to a discussion where a gay man was saying that when he was young, he might have been pushed to transition because he was effeminate, when really he was just gay and is now a happy gay man.
Anyway, I wish people would just come off the extremes and we bring in nuance and humility. Admitting that there is a lot about the human body and mind that we simply don’t understand yet.
Mind if I ask where you heard liberals are jumping to that extreme? If you talk to random people on the street, I doubt you’d find more than maybe 1/1000 people expressing that view (and even that many would be surprisingly high).
The right wing generally doesn’t want people to gain new freedoms. Conservatism, fascism, etc. are hierarchical ideologies. They require people to exist in a chain of command, where lower status people are controlled by those with higher status. One of the biggest tricks used to keep people playing this game is fear. Exaggerated or completely false claims are made and spread amongst their base. “The left wants to take all of your guns!” “The left wants you to worship satan!” “The gays want to …” etc.
Generally, all the left wants is for everyone to get to live their life without arbitrary restrictions/judgement. If a news source is claiming that “the left” wants to control how someone lives their life, take it with a huge grain of salt. All too often, the bold claims coming from the right are distorted confessions. And if real people on the left are calling for a restriction, the intent is to apply it to everyone, themselves included, and there is a reasoned argument behind that conviction.
No one is being convinced of anything. People are being enabled to live as their true selves.
There is no data to back this up, nor is there any reason to think it’s true. Trans people, even just considering the youngest generation, remain a very small percentage of the general population.
Any medical treatment should not be prescribed without a doctor’s due consideration. Gender affirming care, at any age, is no different. There is not a nuclear option available or used for minors expressing they want gender affirming care.
No such exception has been made, certainly not for trans kids.
So, that’s why the comment has some downvotes. And probably should have more. The comment isn’t a differing opinion; it’s factually incorrect.
True, I don’t know any trans people directly, but i certainly wonder if getting the transition is good for them. If i can’t see people discuss both points of view because it’s “transphobic”, i’m forced to draw my own conclusions.
Just to be 100% clear, I am gay and have had my fair share of biggotry, so i know what it’s like. But the fact that i need this disclaimer is concerning to me. I believe that overprotective censorship is responsible for a lot problems we have in 2023. People cannot learn if they cannot ask questions without being told they are evil.
That was pretty much my point. I’m 100% for bodily autonomy and freedom, but when it comes to children can we just take a minute to discuss things like adults without being labeled one thing or another.