Am I missing something? Microsoft literally won’t let me upgrade because my fully functional processor is deemed to old for them. Of coarse the adoption rate is low if they start by excluding a good portion of their user base.
I don’t even understand why they make that distinction. I recently bought a used notebook with Windows 10 preinstalled that can’t be upgraded. But if you just boot up the Windows 11 ISO it works fine without issues from there.
Granted I don’t know why someone would want this; I was genuinely surprised when I noticed installation without a Microsoft account isn’t supposed to be possible. Then you get that system that just feels sketchy to use, Teams in autostart, online services in your menus and all that. And that’s just the stuff you can see. It’s a total disaster in my opinion. But it went downhill ever after Windows 7 as far as I can tell.
Because Windows 11’s primary new feature is SOC level DRM. Old CPUs don’t have the hardware. Obviously MS won’t advertise this, so they end up making vague arguments that Window 11 is “better” but never really elaborate.
Because Windows 11’s primary new feature is SOC level DRM.
Can you please what this means in idiot proof terms?
He may be referring to this:
The concerns include the abuse of remote validation of software (where the manufacturer—and not the user who owns the computer system—decides what software is allowed to run) and possible ways to follow actions taken by the user being recorded in a database, in a manner that is completely undetectable to the user.
It’s hard not to oversimplify. Fundamentally you need to understand the concepts behind secure store and security attestation. I can give you an example:
With Windows 11, MS can guarantee Netflix or Amazon that the 4k Dolby movie you are streaming from your web browser cannot be ripped and pirated. With Windows 10 they could not make that promise. Though it was very hard to do in 10, it was always technically possible. With an SOC level secure store and properly implemented stack, it’s technically impossible. Of course, there are always going to be good old HW and SW implementation bugs that will be exploitable, but the folks who can do it are in for a rough time.
Can’t you just record the video output on a different device
My pet theory is that it’s to throw a bone to OEMs. They came out saying “oop, 7th-gen and older Intel chips won’t work, guess you’ll just need to buy a new PC!” until someone over there noticed that their still-for-sale (at the time the requirements went live), few-thousand-dollar PC (the Surface Studio 2) was a 7th-gen chip so they made eventually an exception just for that one. Because “reasons”.
It baffles the mind. I have a brand new system, newest generation 7600 Ryzen processor, AM5 motherboard, plenty of ram, decent graphics card.
“Your computer does not meet the minimum requirements for Windows 11”
It’s almost certainly bugged somehow, but I’ll take it as a compliment, I’ll never willingly install that OS regression anyways…
When Windows 11 first released this was due to TPM being disabled but I thought they had fixed the messaging now to say that
My boot drive is too small for 11 but has always been fine for 10, which is a blessing for me as I have loads of other drive space that isn’t being considered. An unexpected update would make me so sad.
Windows 11 has one specific limiting feature that drives me bonkers and it’s not being able to click the clock in the bottom right on a secondary monitor to pull up a calendar. Windows 10 has this, why remove it?
It’s a miniscule but good feature
It seems like they are going out of their way to remove good features. Like they removed the option to right click the taskbar and open task manager. They since added it back, but only because of user demand.
They have removed quick access to disabling the network, seeing and changing ip settings.
I can’t remember all the annoying issues, but there’s a lot.
I hate that it has become a general thing to ruin user experience and possibilities of customization. Google is doing the same with android.
The volume mixer is also only now coming back.
My biggest issue is that you can’t open new file explorer tabs in the same window. So before you know it, you have 10 different file browser windows open. It wasn’t a Windows 10 feature either but there was an extension called Qtabbar that allowed it. That doesn’t work on Windows 11. So I’ve been using free commander as a work around. It’s annoying though.
From a technical perspective, they didn’t remove it or any of the other missing features from the taskbar since the win11 taskbar was built from scratch without any of the old code for 10. For whatever reason, that feature wasn’t prioritized in the new taskbar build so it wasn’t built yet, or they didn’t want to add it.
I still think their decision to not allow the new taskbar to be placed on the sides or top is really stupid though, as someone with a 32:9 monitor, I’d much rather use some of my horizontal space for taskbar rather than limited vertical space.
I’m still waiting for the uncombined icons on taskbar
Small icons, show title, never combine.
Still waiting on the release that contains this.
YES PLEASE
At launch you couldn’t even have that clock on the second screen, they added it back partially in an update, non-clickable.
And win11 is filled with this sort of thing. It’s the worst update windows ever got, except maybe for winMe - which I don’t recall that well.
VISTA comes to mind when i was getting more into computers. I missed XP so bad. Then 7 came out and it was great!
half of what made 7 great was first added as an update on vista but people were already burned from it and unwilling to give vista another try.
My minor but really irritating gripe is the unmovable taskbar (which I’m not sure if this has changed or not), I’ve been a top taskbar person since xp and it doesn’t make sense to me to remove a feature like that. Apparently there are Reg hacks or third party tools to do what I want but I really shouldn’t have to resort to that Imo.
I didn’t even realize this. What in the backwards UI design is that?
This was linked as an answer in an Microsoft answers thread with this being the thread in question. Honestly I have no idea why it was removed, and I’m pretty simple with a top taskbar. I know a few people who use side taskbars pretty heavily.
I have tried a reg hack, which worked pretty well, but it kept resetting after every update. And changing the registries I did (don’t recall which I changed or if they still work.) also came with some annoying issues, like window preview still show on top of taskbar (so outside of your screen) among other thing.
I also preferred to have a smaller taskbar which is also no longer possible.
So I have given up and resorted to a bottom taskbar on autohide. But even that has some wonky interactions, with for example windows + tab, where there is a nice shade behind your different virtual desktops, but it stops at the original location of the taskbar.
This is my biggest gripe with W11 as well. I used to use that all the time to check what day any given date is.
Why would I upgrade to an OS that pushes ads on my login screen and start menu? Some software forces me to keep a windows machine around but I’m certainly in no hurry to upgrade from 10 to 11.
Because eventually you won’t have a choice. That’s how Microsoft works. Newer versions of Office come with slightly different file formats so people using older version have to upgrade. There’s no plugin for new format or just degradation of the document when opening. They outright refuse.
Microsoft pushed Windows7 in similar way. New version of DirectX supported only Win7 and not older versions, even though there’s no reason not to from a technical point of view. But new games supported new DirectX only and if you wanted to play better shell out those bucks.
In the end, biggest enemy to any paid software is not open source competitors, it’s previous versions of their own software for the very same reason you mentioned. Why would anyone upgrade if all they need is already there. Most people don’t need all the features of Office apart from different fonts and sizes, perhaps occasional table.
I’m still using Windows 7 in my home computer, for gaming no less, and only recently did some games come out that don’t support it and the only significant push to upgrade is the upcoming (end of year) end of Steam support for it, which is just going to make me use my Linux partition for games more.
Roughly only in the last 2 years have I started to have any inconveniences from having Windows 7 - basically the latest KiKad, for circuit design, doesn’t support it, so I kept using the previous version which has very rarelly has forced me to go find component and footpads which I would otherwise have already in the latest one.
The point being that if Windows 7 only started to get incovenient to use (both for gaming and professionally) well beyond not just Windows 8 having been launched but even Windows 10 having been launched, it’s reasonable to expect that Windows 10 will still be fine for use for many years.
Fortunately I don’t need gaming features on that machine, I only need to boot it to use things like Odin to flash a Samsung tablet or run crappy Nintendo Switch tools from gbatemp.
It’s very much a 4th or 5th string machine for me.
Disabled with a single click.
The fact it’s there at all is fucked. No thanks I’ll pass
And it’s not like ms has a habit of undoing those types of selections during updates, or just changing what way to disable them
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Let’s see. Its full of ads, spyware and the ui is a complete mess.
I can’t imagine why people a digging in there heals
Honestly, I think, like the article says, the hardware issue is the biggest hurdle. People use Facebook, after all, and it is full of ads and its UI is also a complete mess.
I am on Windows 11. The UI has been more consistent than 10 ever was and I am curious where the ads are.
The ‘news’ thing in the taskbar counts, I think. As does the recommended apps and preinstalled candy crush. It’s looking less and less like a professional tool nowadays.
You can hide the news button on the taskbar and I uninstalled all of those extra, pre-installed, bloat apps. My taskbar looks just as clean as it has for the past 20 years.
It should not be necessary to do that in the first place.
Tbf that’s all in the consumer editions.
Even a “pro” install on Windows 10 pre-configured via Rufus will try to install fucking Candy Crush. Professional software my ass.
Ubuntu at least has a very clear “what you need it for” question in its setup, and extended support for older versions for corps. Seems like companies may actually be better off on Linux these days unless you they’re using Adobe products.
You confuse what I meant. In a professional environment, the images should be customized via deployment toolkit. These things should not be in the image at all. But I’ll admit I haven’t looked at the windows 11 builds but I used to do windows 10 and earlier. Any bloatware et al is taken out before production deployments.
Too many features that I use daily as a Sysadmin are missing to consider w11 as anything more than a PITA currently.
At home my PC hardware is fully capable but my HDD will need a reformat, so I either rebuild my system from scratch (not gonna happen any time soon) or fork out for yet another HDD and transfer tools.
So it’s an imposed cost for little benefit and a whole mountain of inconvenience.
I literally disabled my TPM chip to prevent w11 force installing itself. Management forked out for a new fleet of w11 machines and staff are straight up refusing to move off older slower PC’s to avoid w11.
W11 needs a solid 12 months of re-adding existing features to be worth looking sideways at.
You must be on win7 or older.
Why? Your comment makes no sense.
Why would you need a new hdd?
I hate that I can’t have labels in the taskbar. Really slows down my workflow
Do you mean these taskbar labels?
Hooray!!!
I bought a new laptop that came with 11, I haven’t had any super annoying issues… Actually the preinstalled Samsung apps are more annoying than anything OS related… But to be fair, when I was setting it up, I looked into how to do it without connecting to a Microsoft account - it’s possible but takes a little work. I wonder if that is the difference…
My personal computer is a Windows 11 desktop and I performed a clean install when I got it. So now I don’t have any pre-installed apps from the manufacturer. I did use a Microsoft account to sign in, and then just removed or customized whatever I didn’t like
I mean… Full of Ads seems a bit exaggerating… And I have seen much worse UIs on Linux… The spyware part nothing to say, plenty of telemetry and other stuff so yeah…
Full of Ads seems a bit exaggerating…
One is enough. Especially considering it’s a paid product.
And I have seen much worse UIs on Linux…
This is like saying “Motorcycles are better, because I’ve seen some terrible car designs”
plenty of telemetry and other stuff so yeah…
So as long as many people do a thing, it makes it ok, ya?
Well both are operating systems just putting an example that I have seen plenty worse. And no it is not bad…yeah there is always something that could be better but come on if it was that terrible it wouldn’t be used by millions of people everyday without massive issues.
And for the last point to be clear I was agreeing on the spyware in case it wasn’t clear. I wasn’t saying that it was ok I was saying that yeah it’s true it has plenty so nothing to say on my part.
I get Tron back at Reddit and that cleans up my windows
To me an os should be something that just let’s me run programs of my choice and use my hardware to it’s fullest. Eg be as light as possible.
With windows it just wants to suck up all my hardware/battery by itself and puts up a fight anytime I want to install anything myself
Don’t know how many times now I’ve had to take defaults away from things like edge but yeah
Might want to look into Linux :-)
While I exclusively use Linux at home and I recommend it to everyone especially on desktop, they mentioned battery life and from my experience that isn’t its strong suit.
I really thought that comment was building up to something like “and that’s why I use Arch, btw” lol
As it’s kind of implied at this point I thought I’d leave it out for once ;-)
But yes I do use Arch, btw.
Ah, I was thinking of the original comment when I typed that but in hindsight I guess yours does work haha.
Gotta love good old Arch, someday soon I do hope to outnerd that regularly with “I use NixOS/Bazzite, btw”.
I’m not sure how secure it is, but Chris titus’s windows debloater works wonders for my windows install. Getting rid of edge and other MS clutter really cleans up the windows desktop in a way you wouldn’t think.
I actually have used that as well on most of my family’s computers also. It sure does beat messing with settings.
I think next time I have to reinstall windows I’ll attempt something like tinywin10.
2 years is plenty of time to see where linux support is. We should have a good idea by then of where gaming and streaming quality stand for the foreseeable future.
Most of my PCs will easily go to linux, the big question is whether to suck it up and upgrade my gaming rig to 11 or just switch everything to linux.
Switching to Linux is a pain, but its a pain once, staying on windows is the pain that keeps on giving
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Lol fwiw one thing ChatGPT is shockingly great at is Linux troubleshooting for some reason. Google first but if you’re stuck paste in that error code and see what it advises you to do…its been my savior a few times!
This makes sense. By now a full 3-4% of all data on the internet is probably Linux help forums so it’s probably highly represented in its dataset lol
Gaming is much better on Linux thanks to Steam, but having lots of problems with more recent games and their cursed launchers. I try and remember that Gen X had to figure all this stuff out with early versions of Windows and I should resurrect the same determination that got me through back then… but I’d be lying if I said it was easy.
It really depends on the games you play. The thing is, you need to be really honest with yourself in regards to what you play and how far you’re willing to go for the ease of use. Most, if not all games that don’t require invasive anti cheat will just work,there are outliers like media foundations cinematics that just don’t work without protonGE, but even that’s not really a problem and getting smaller and smaller with every proton update. Are you comfortable installing the heroic games launcher from a terminal if it’s not available in your software center? If so, then that opens up a whole new library of games to play from Epic and GoG, if not then use a distro that has it preinstalled.
The Linux community will make you think it’s an easy transition, and for the most part it is, but as someone who moved to Linux full-time and has been running only Linux for about 6 months, there are still hurdles to jump over, it was about 80% click install and play, and the other 20% was troubleshooting and trying different versions of proton. I’m willing to live with those odds if it means complete freedom of my computer and cutting all ties to Windows. If I want to play games that have anti cheat though, I either have to use GeForce now or use my consoles. However, increasing support for crossplay makes this a non-issue in most cases.
I do hope you make the jump, it’s pretty clear the path Microsoft wants to follow and I don’t want any part of it, neither should anyone else. We’re in sort of a golden age of Linux gaming right now thanks to Valve, and the momentum doesn’t seem to be slowing down thanks to the steam deck.
I don’t really play any anti-cheat multiplayer but I do play some AAA with DRM like Assassins Creed.
I’m fully comfortable with linux to the degree that I can start with a TTY and set up my own GUI with a window manager (though I prefer to just install a DE.)
Proton has been hit or miss with me on my laptop: sometimes the game won’t load, or it’ll load but the graphics will suck, or it’ll run nicely but all the good mods aren’t supported. That’s what I mean by seeing what the state of gaming is in 2 years: at that point Steam Deck and Proton should be pretty mature.
Outside of that, the Windows streaming apps support 4k but resolution is generally limited in the browser, though I suppose I could use my tv’s streaming apps. I’ve used my work software on my linux laptop so I know that’s a non-issue.
At this point, I don’t have a push to switch, but I’m not really excited for 11 and I might have to reinstall anyway to upgrade because apparently the Windows 10 install didn’t leave Windows 11 enough free space at the start of the disk or some bullshit. And if I have to reinstall anyway in 2 years, I’ll probably just do linux.
If your laptop is Nvidia unfortunately it can be hit or miss and that’s just the nature of Nvidia on Linux right now. If you have AMD and in some cases Intel, you’re set and there’s minimal to no setup required.
My one game that isn’t fully supported (with mods and add ons) is FFXIV. I’m not switching until ACT (DPS parsing with packet capturing as a windows firewall) is supported. All my others mods for FFXIV are supported very easily it seems.
Why in the world do you need packet capturing for an MMO…I can understand DPS meters and tracking, but surely there’s an addon that works.
Windows 11 coerced me into being an Ubuntu user.
I just went through those weasel-worded Windows 11 setup questions three times while configuring a laptop for a family member, then twice had to figure out how to dodge it demanding a Microsoft account, after which I needed to remove all the bloatware and change various defaults. My own laptop with OpenSUSE Tumbleweed has been a delight to use by comparison.
Also, the Windows 11 Start menu still doesn’t work half the time.
Windows XP did that for me.
ah, the MS of Linux.
baby steps I guess.
I use arch btw.
God damn. Even moving to linux isn’t good enough for you people lol
distro snobs are typically just having a laugh, it’s the text editor weirdos you gotta look out for.
I use VIM btw
Ew, less/cat or nothing!
“Ubuntu” is Zulu for “can’t install Debian”.
::rolleyes::
I use Knoppix because I am a 1337 haxxor.
have my wardriving knoppix cd around here somewhere … all you need is nmap for pen testing right?
The comparisons in the article are boneheded.
According to Statcounter, the worldwide Windows version desktop market share puts Windows 10 at 71.64 percent, with Windows 11 trailing at 23.61 percent.
To put that in context, Windows 11 was launched two years ago today. Windows 10 was launched in 2015 and took two years to reach the same market share as the then-dominant player, Windows 7.
Comparing the numbers of the move from 7 to 10 to that from 10 to 11 ignores that whole shitshow with 8.0 and the correction of 8.1.
Of course it’s easier for 10 to dethrone 7 when there is the spoiler effect of 8 and 8.1!
I have a rig with Windows 10, and haven’t upgraded because… Microsoft arbitrarily say my CPU is unsupported, even though it meets all the criteria.
Bypassing takes a click if you download the reg files (there’s a install version and an upgrade version)
Or more clicks if you have to do it manually
My pc isn’t compatible with Win11 (unsupported cpu) and since I’m poor, I’m not getting a new one anytime soon.
Besides, Win10 is great.
Windows, a solution to problems that only exist because of Windows.
The single biggest reason is that Microsoft significantly limited the hardware that can be used for W11 with the TPM and stringent hardware needs.
Not that I want to upgrade but I don’t understand the logic behind the requirements at all. I have a cheap and weak little travel notebook thats apparently elegible, meanwhile my desktop thats very modern and could probably run an atomic scale simulation of that notebook is apparently not suitable.
Pretty much any modern CPU has a TPM module built-in. Good chance you just need to go to the BIOS and enable it.
I would have upgraded a while ago if my hardware supported it. The kernel upgrades are pretty zippy.
So anyways, I’ve been playing Baldurs Gate and Genshin on Linux and it’s pretty dope
Valheim works like a charm too
Valheim doesn’t work anywhere like a charm, Windows included. They like certain nVidia cards but other than that it’s one of the worst optimized games I had disfortune to use.
It works fine if you’re the chosen one.
I can play it fine in my machine, both windows and Linux, but most of my friends can’t get it to work anywhere close to fine.
It’s also terrible on steam deck.
It runs fine for me on Linux, same as it does in Windows, always has since release. I am using an Nvidia card though, so maybe I lucked out.
From my experience it’s almost luck based.
Thats unfortunately true.What I ment was that it runs much better than windows that tend to BSOD if I’m lucky or shut down my computer after a couple of minutes.
genshin works on Linux now? I thought it’s anticheat wasn’t compatible with proton
They actually made the anti cheat compatible. You just run the exe through wine-ge (I use lutris for that) and it just works. Nothing is modified.
I’ve been running it since 3.8 just fine, everything just works in it. Apparently it’s been supported since 3.5.
Avoid AnAnimeGame Launcher, that is the launcher where they modify your files, which is completely unnecessary now that it’s compatible.
woah, so I could even just add it to steam and use vanilla proton, huh? guess it’s time to make space for another couple dozen gigs in my hard drive lol
I wonder if the anticheat actually works that way or it just makes the game think it works.
The ban hammer will come soon.
Personally, I don’t see it coming anytime soon. I played genshin on linux for maybe over a year, and with the fps unlocker for maybe almost 2 years, on both windows and linux, and have never been banned.
I stopped playing on version a few months ago though.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Windows 10 isn’t even close to end of support.
If enterprise users haven’t moved over then individual users don’t need to.
I will move over before support finishes but make no mistake that’ll be because I’m forced to due to security reasons and not because I want to.
My windows 10 enterprise has been running flawlessly.
There is a trend line of the amount of shit you need to do to get linux to do things you want.
There is a trend line of the amount of shit you need to do to stop windows from doing things you don’t want.Those two lines have crossed quite a while ago.
My “fuck this” moment came about 7y ago when Microsoft started forcing reboots that couldn’t be disabled even with group policy. I think I lost work 2 or 3 times because I’d stayed up late working and eventually just fell into bed without saving everything and shutting the machine down. I woke up to a login screen the next morning and said “oh fuck this” the second or third time it happened.
The most shameful thing is that many applications that would fail to come back with all their state after restart were Microsoft’s own programs like Sql Server Management Studio – that one does better now, but well over a decade too late.
Being real though, for most people on actual personal computers, not work devices, linux does everything you need, though with different software in some cases.
If you rely on adobe for personal hobbies, you’re fucked. An ever shrinking amount of games don’t play well with proton. And if you use a pc for your music listening/organization, you’re not going to enjoy things much. That’s it.
Now, switching software like word over to libreoffice can take a week or so of adjustment, but you can write a bloody novel on it. Same with the other libreoffice tools; they do perfectly well.
Yeah, work programs might not be optional, so until the big names start serving the linux market, not everyone will have full choice. But for those of us that aren’t locked into an industry standard piece of software? It’s really not an issue now.
Even when 10 came out, there wasn’t a lot of issue switching over. Gaming at the time was the biggest non-work weakness.
The only thing I haven’t been able to replace and do as well or better with is with audio. Linux doesn’t have any programs that match musicbee.
if you use a pc for your music listening/organization, you’re not going to enjoy things much
False. Rhythmbox is like itunes minus every single thing you disliked about it plus it has flac support.
And if the organization bit was supposed to mean that explorer is better than any standard file manager on Linux… I definitely disagree there too
What if I use foobar and will not settle for anything less?
I have not fully moved to linux yet. Last time I tried it through wine back in 2020 it ran like shit. Deadbeef did not have feature parity either. Wonder how good is it now.I don’t know what deadbeef or foobar are, but rhythm box is a great music player if you care about music organization and playback
Seriously? Foobar is the sole reason to use Windows? Holy fuck.
The great irony is, a lot of the enterprise stuff DOES work on Linux. There’s even a mative Microsoft Teams client. Further, the biggest innovation to Windows lately … has been adding Linux to it with WSL.
Even Microsoft knows Windows sucks and is supporting Linux more than they used to.