I’m not a fan of the Green Party, either. Among other things, they gave us Senator Sinema.
But if leftists want to demonstrate that they are better than establishment Dems at winning elections, then leftists will have to win elections. Starting with primaries.
And yes, others will try to “tear them down” from all sides. Intraparty fighting never ends, even after winning an election. Just ask Joe Biden. That’s the nature of politics, which leftists often don’t want to face.
In which case, I cannot argue with. Which means the Democrats most certainly do not support the interests of the working class, and just want power over others. Which means, none of us should be voting for them, or the GOP.
This is not leftism. What you’re proposing is just a shiny new liberal party. This hypothetical new party would be subject to the same mechanisms and forces that corrupted the democratic party. Give it 50 years, and we are back at square one: capital will swallow any agency that your proposed party once exhibited.
Decrying actual leftists for not participating in american electoralism that is wholley orchestrated by capital is going to fall on deaf ears. Leftists have no interest in creating a new capitalist party and subsequently refining capitalism.
Trump agreed with the working class that the economy is in the shitter. He lied about wanting to fix it.
Harris declared anyone who thought the economy was in the shitter was hallucinating, and they just need to shut up, and vote for her, because “I’m not Donald”.
That’s the difference. And Harris’ strategy was a losing one.
No leftist has any illusion on if either oligarch truly wanted to represent us, rather than their actual constituents: other oligarchs.
What are you on about? Democrats, in one of the most embarrassing defeats in recent history, literally just made it clear to the world that they would rather lose than cater to leftists. Biden decided that carrying out genocide in Gaza was more important than defeating Trump.
That’s the usual explanation leftists give. But I’m not sure Democrats should listen to that, either.
Especially since the largest shifts towards Trump in 2024 occurred in the Latino and Gen Z male demographics. Both of them are more centrist than average Democrats, and they are the demographics that Democrats need to win back in 2028.
Do you think any of that loss might have been caused by the Dems declaring a great economy, and telling voters to stop whining, and just vote Blue No Matter Who?
I’m not a fan of the Green Party, either. Among other things, they gave us Senator Sinema.
But if leftists want to demonstrate that they are better than establishment Dems at winning elections, then leftists will have to win elections. Starting with primaries.
And yes, others will try to “tear them down” from all sides. Intraparty fighting never ends, even after winning an election. Just ask Joe Biden. That’s the nature of politics, which leftists often don’t want to face.
What if I told you, that elections are a way for the ruling class to justify the oppression of the working class?
Then I would conclude that you are not interested in winning elections.
And therefore you shouldn’t give advice to people who do want to win elections.
Hey man, I want our Empire to crumble, not prolong it’s life.
While crumbling, I want to limit damage as best as possible.
The Dems are the ones who care about winning elections, and holding power. The only way to do that is to listen to the working class.
Trump lied about his intent to fix the problems, but he did, minimally, agree they existed.
I don’t believe leftists actually know “the only way to win elections and hold power”, considering they have accomplished neither.
Probably because neither is our goal? I mean, leftists want no state, no classes, and no money.
Democrats definitely don’t want a stateless society. So they definitely should not listen to leftists.
In which case, I cannot argue with. Which means the Democrats most certainly do not support the interests of the working class, and just want power over others. Which means, none of us should be voting for them, or the GOP.
Plenty of people in the working class don’t want a stateless society, either.
This is not leftism. What you’re proposing is just a shiny new liberal party. This hypothetical new party would be subject to the same mechanisms and forces that corrupted the democratic party. Give it 50 years, and we are back at square one: capital will swallow any agency that your proposed party once exhibited.
I really encourage you to do some reading on Marxism and leftism before you throw around the term so carelessly. https://socialistworker.org/2012/07/20/what-is-a-vanguard-party
Decrying actual leftists for not participating in american electoralism that is wholley orchestrated by capital is going to fall on deaf ears. Leftists have no interest in creating a new capitalist party and subsequently refining capitalism.
Then I was right. Leftists don’t want to win elections.
But Democrats do. So why should Democrats listen to leftists?
Maybe to avoid losing presidential elections?
Just an idea…
If leftists ever won a presidential election, then they might have useful advice to others who wanted to do the same.
But they never have, and apparently they don’t even want to.
So, no interest in trying to represent the working class…
And also wondering why you think they deserve to win…
If leftists think Trump best listens to the working class, then leftists should start advising Republicans instead of Democrats.
Trump agreed with the working class that the economy is in the shitter. He lied about wanting to fix it.
Harris declared anyone who thought the economy was in the shitter was hallucinating, and they just need to shut up, and vote for her, because “I’m not Donald”.
That’s the difference. And Harris’ strategy was a losing one.
No leftist has any illusion on if either oligarch truly wanted to represent us, rather than their actual constituents: other oligarchs.
So lying to the working class is your winning strategy.
Thanks, Lenin.
What are you on about? Democrats, in one of the most embarrassing defeats in recent history, literally just made it clear to the world that they would rather lose than cater to leftists. Biden decided that carrying out genocide in Gaza was more important than defeating Trump.
That’s the usual explanation leftists give. But I’m not sure Democrats should listen to that, either.
Especially since the largest shifts towards Trump in 2024 occurred in the Latino and Gen Z male demographics. Both of them are more centrist than average Democrats, and they are the demographics that Democrats need to win back in 2028.
Do you think any of that loss might have been caused by the Dems declaring a great economy, and telling voters to stop whining, and just vote Blue No Matter Who?
I don’t know.
But I do know who Democrats need to win back if they want to win in 2028. And those voters are mostly centrists.
Ah yes, the centrists! You know the ones who “both sides” everything, and turns out? They just vote Trump?
How many more centrists do you think the Dems will need to court? Wasn’t Dick Cheney enough? You know, the war criminal?
How about, like, maybe just trying to listen to the working class?
Im dying to know: what sort of voters do you think democrats were focusing on grabbing for this past election?
Centrists. The ones who decided this election. And also decided the 2020 election.