Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a hater. I actually was really excited for the game. But so far I am just not having fun.
For a little bit of reference, I just finished playing thru Cyberpunk 2077 and then jumped right into Starfield. Maybe that was a mistake because I kinda just want to go back to Cyberpunk (and I will in a few weeks when the DLC comes out).
But I’m noticing two really big issues with Starfield: first, the gunplay/combat is… let’s call it underwhelming. I realize it’s quite probably a skill issue and I need to just git gud, but holy crap, everything is a bullet sponge and I don’t have that many bullets! Stealth seems to be pretty worthless at early levels as I don’t have any high-alpha guns that can take advantage of it and, most of the time, I’m detected before I even see the bad guys. I’m just not enjoying this aspect of the game at all.
The second big issue for me is that there’s a loading screen every five seconds! Again, probably a me thing, but OMG, it’s driving me nuts. Get into ship, loading screen. Launch from planet, loading screen. Fly to next planet, loading screen. Land on planet, loading screen. Leave ship, loading screen. I just want to go shoot things! Let me shoot things!
Okay, found some spacers, time to… oh shit, out of ammo. Let me swap to a worse gun that still has ammo. Sigh. Okay, they’re dead. Let me just heal up… oh shit, out of med packs. Sigh.
Oh and wrestling with the UI is exhausting.
Anyways, I realize that this probably isn’t the place to find a lot of like-minded people. But I really do want to like this game. Any tips on maybe at least ways to make the combat less of a chore?
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I hate that people feel the need to say they’re not a hater in order not to get abused for not liking a game. People out here treating games like a religion.
I totally agree with this. I have always been able to empathize with people not liking a game that I’m obsessed with. Every game has flaws, and games are like music genres- if I like EDM, you may like country, and that’s ok.
People get really closed-minded about games, even past the point of “fanboy”. It’s like some sort of hero worship.
Yeah, those people are so heavily invested in this game that it has to be great at all costs. I mean dropping $100 just to play a few days early and the subsequent justifications made after the fact really speak to that.
I’ve heard people talk about how this is the greatest game ever released. Like dude, this isn’t even the greatest game released so far this year.
I agree about the loading screens. It didn’t drive me crazy but would have been better if there were fewer.
In regards to combat, I like it. Even many of the reviewers felt combat was one of the good things.
I’m still pretty early game, but I also like it. The sponginess means I can’t just fire a few shots at a guy’s head and call it a day, I might need to cycle through weapons, be pretty careful about taking breaks for cover, watch my health. It means my ammo gets used up a lot more, and same with health items.
Actually, Ive noticed a bit of a trend in Starfield where it seems like Bethesda is trying to push back a bit against having a massive overage of ammunition and money (without bringing the scavenging skill into it).
Having spongey enemies and a ton of different kinds of ammo means no one weapon has an absurd amount of ammo, and not having a ton of easily burgled apartments or houses means I cant just have a huge city stealing spree and come out the other end richer than I know what to do with only ten hours in.
I initially hated that there weren’t huge apartment blocks ripe for stealing, but I can sort of understand why that’s the case now and I can appreciate having a larger wind up time to becoming stupidly rich, especially with there being much higher money sinks compared to older Bethesda games between ship and outpost building. It really seems like, to me, Bethesda is purposefully trying to have a functioning economy compared with their older games where making money a non-issue was basically a part of the early game.
I heard that it’s possible to steal spaceships and sell them. It’s a long process, but seems to be worth the time. Some spaceships bring lots of cash.
Was i made a fool of?
I just discovered yesterday that you need a systems targeting skill to be able to target enemy engines, which enables boarding, which enables ship capture, and then boom, you can sell ships. So yes, I’m sure I could get rich that way, but it’s not nearly as alluringly easy as going to one town in Skyrim and just looting absolutely fucking everything in one in-game day.
You do need to register ships before you can sell them though, so you only come out with a profit of a few thousand credits
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a black market shipyard that’ll let you sell without registering.
I see, I picked up the skill but haven’t actually done the whole ship capture thing yet. That seems a pretty appropriate way to make it so it’s not an easy get rich quick scheme.
you need to register spaceships for 84% of their sell value before you can sell them, only making a few grand. Not really worth the effort.
I haven’t checked out a ton of reviews, just two or three from trusted reviewers. The very first one I watched said they didn’t like the combat but still really enjoyed the game overall. I’m hoping I can push through to the point where I’m enjoying the rest of the game…
I think part of this is what it’s being compared to. The combat is significantly better in starfield than past Bethesda (BGS) games. People who are saying it’s great are generally comparing it to their past games.
I don’t have experience with Cyberpunks combat yet (waiting for the update to finally play it) but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s better.
Shouldn’t you be comparing to other current games in the genre, rather than past games of the company? Because if the game is better than their past games, but nothing close to current games in the genre, then that just means it’s a bad game and their past games were worse.
BGS game is a genre unto itself really. With a few exceptions for games made by another developer there really aren’t any other games that play or work the same. That said the most recent game in the genre I can think of would be Fallout 4 and the gunplay is definitely better.
I feel like there not being a single large map derives a bit from that BGS feel. In Skyrim if you need to go somewhere new you might trek across the map for a few minutes, and on the way come across a few random encounters and interesting places. In Starfield you teleport most of the way, and if you want to come across random encounters outside your ship you have to go out of your way or do some specific quests.
Yeah, this is my feeling as well. It makes it feel like a few disconnected locations, not one shared universe. If we could get into out ship and fly places without just teleporting there from the map that’d go a long way to fixing things. Maybe also make things happening in space to make it feel alive. As it is, the space stuff is mostly just another loading screen on top of the other loading screens. It doesn’t play a role in the rest of the game and just serves to disconnect us (rather than connect as it’s supposed to) from the world we’re in.
My main complaint is the writing and worldbuilding. So far I’ve been exploring new Atlantis and picked up exclusively fetch quests from NPCs so generic and uninteresting I don’t really feel like continuing to talk to them. And the uncreative worldbuilding of authoritarian capitalists Vs libertarian capitalksts vs religious crazies. Can Bethesda not even imagine an alternative to capitalism?
Name me one sci-fi that has had an alternative to capitalism without access to something god-tech level like Treks replicators, which would break the setting entirely.
Not saying there should be fully automated luxury gay space communism, but that every faction is different flavours of capitalism is very disappointing. Sci-fi is usually a medium that criticizes the current society.
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Out of those, The Expanse, Star Wars and Firefly all very much feature capitalism.
Battlestar doesn’t feature large scale capitalism due to most of the human race being destroyed but it definitely exists within the fleet, as we see in the episode where Lee investigated the black markets.
Starship Troopers and Warhammer are both authoritarian fascistic states where everything is controlled by the government, which granted is something different from capitalism, but not the time this game went for.
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They all also feature an alternative to capitalism alongside capitalism, which is exactly what you asked for.
It took like a 30 seconds of web search to find the dispossessed by Ursula le guin.
Your argument is actively supporting the other commenters point about boring world building in sci fi.
Capitalism works great with RPGs leveling system.
But I’d love to have seen a cashless society where the only way to get stuff was to trade other goods.
Or some sort of social credit system, where the nicer you are and the more quests you complete, the higher your status and the more free items you unlock.
Or some authoritative system that binds you into a contract whenever you make a trade it forces you to work off your debt in all matters of ways.
Capitalism is the best system you can really have when you have multiple factions who’s economies work together though. What you describe is great if the whole world trades in that manner, but when you have multiple factions you needs someway for commerce to work between them for world building. To be fair, it’s not like the factions in stafridls are just boring capitalists. The more I’ve learned about the UC, my assumption that they were just democratic socialist types has been undermined totally.
I haven’t played that much yet, but I’m not hooked at all. It just feels like a bunch of games I’ve already played. The core gameplay is fallout or Skyrim, great games, but we’ve seen the formula plenty of times. Space combat is like a watered-down version of elite. The planet concept has already been done by NMS and so far I think they did it better. I don’t think it’s bad, but how is it supposed to compete for my attention with all the games that just came out?
The space combat and flight capability in general being a watered down version of Elite’s is definitely my biggest complaint. I’m perfectly happy doing space-chores as gameplay and have really enjoyed bumbling my way between radiant quests and random buildings I find while scanning planets, but I want to land the ship dammit. So much of Elite I found incredibly boring but kept coming back for a long time for the flight/space combat.
I get why they did it that way to make it more accessible to a wider audience (my partner for instance cannot begin to agree with me wanting the flight to be more complicated), but the space genre has often had a huge overlap with flight sim fans for good reason. I hope a very capable modder with far more time and skill than me can implement a more robust space flight experience in there one day.
I think an independent thruster controls mod would be great. Space drifting in elite with 6 degrees of freedom was so much fun.
There are about a million things you can critique Elite but they fucking nailed combat, it was super satisfying in that game. That is the bar for subsequent space games and it’s definitely something that can be improved upon but so far idk if anyone has been able touch it. Really fun aspect of that game.
If you like it and are having fun, good for you. If you don’t like it and would rather spend time on the bazillion other games out there, you won’t be missing out much either.
At the end of the day, Starfield is just another Bethesda game. Same mould, same problems, same gameplay, with a slightly improved engine for overhauls which will be carried out by none other than free and enthusiastic modders.
Screaming at each other for liking or disliking a game is just what gamers always have been doing and will keep doing forever.
It is very whelming, yes. It’s exactly what I expected, and yet… I want more. At least for the things it does to be done better. Give me a reason for base building. Make the AI not just stand there like dopes and be bullet sponges when you want them to be hard (seriously, “legendaries” have 3 fucking HP bars and it’s dumb). Actually have dialogue choices that are a bit more meaningful and change things.
I’m tired of it just working. I want it to work fantastically.
It will literally never be that if you keep buying it. It also just wouldn’t exist at all, so I understand there is no winning scenario. But there definitely won’t be more as long as it is “working”.
I haven’t bought it. I smuggled it out of Neon. 😏
No sir, you are not alone. The horrendously weak opening combined with bullet sponge gunplay, so many loading screens, a horrendous UI, boring worlds with little to nothing to do on them…I managed to make myself play for 12 hours before I gave up for good. It simply didn’t catch me at all, despite multiple attempts. Maybe in 2 years with mods, but for now it’s just time to move on for me.
What I think plagues this genre of game is that the sense of discovery is not there, like it is on a “2D” plane. What I mean by that is this:
In a game like Skyrim where you have essentially a 2D plane of area to explore, you can see in front of you all the things that are possible even without using a map. You can play the entire game without a map by following roads, seeing things that pique your interest, and just walking there.
However, in a game like Starfield, you can’t go anywhere without entering a menu and going through 4 or 5 loading screens. And you HAVE to use the menu to go places instead of just walking to something you see in the distance. It’s a huge barrier to organic discovery. And on top of that, purposely, there’s nothing to do on the vast majority of planets AND THEN, even the things that are on planets are so unimportant, they may as well not be there. An anomaly I found on a planet was 1000m away, I walked to it, and all I could do was scan it for half a second. It was just a waste of time. Buildings don’t actually seem to have anything to do in them. Caves are all empty.
It’s fun to think you can explore the galaxy, but making it too real makes it much too boring and much too difficult to feel that you’re actually discovering anything.
Edit: Another thought is that in Skyrim, you know there are things to discover, you just have to find them. In Starfield, Bethesda purposely made many of the planets devoid of anything of interest, so when you go to a new area, you’re not even sure it’s worth your time.
I have a rule about bethesda games - I don’t buy them until well after the first few patches, or the GOTY edition. I am starfield curious but also, hesitant because of No Man’s Sky. Allow me to elaborate:
NMS shipped and was garbage. But over the ensuing year, damned near everything players expected or wanted from it came to be with game altering updates that improved it’s content range enormously. It’s still not my favorite game, but every time I fire it up there’s new shit for me to do and most of it’s pretty well implemented.
I have absolutely zero expectations in this way for Starfield. They’re not going to rework space-to-ground flight or rng generated ground plots you can’t explore past; they may improve perf and qol over time, but I fundamentally doubt anything like No Man’s Sky updates are in the future.
So yeah, that makes me pause, and remember to be patient.
This is why I rented the game with gamepass. I’m so happy I did, this game is just… not fun and now I’m only out the time it has taken me to go play Sea of Stars
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The game is a mess. It’s totally lost trying to figure out it’s identity. I’ve got the answer everyone can’t quite put their finger on. Had this game came out 2 or 3 years after New Vegas it would have been heralded as the next generation in rpgs. The problem is we are well past that. Bethesda should have made this game instead of fallout 76. It would have totally fit the time frame and been forgivable.
The problem is we have multiple games that do this better in whatever aspect you prefer. Like realism space sim, that’s star citizen or elite dangerous. Want planetary exploration with life form scanning and base building? That’s no man sky.
I still find myself playing because I’m so hard gay for that Bethesda fallout choose your own adventure foundation that’s present here. But damn is it overall shit. Just embarrassing
star citizen
The barely functional game that inspired NFTs by making people buy worthless digital items for internet clout?
Starfield is basically the same recipe as past fallout/elder scrolls titles. Everyone loves to complain about them but everyone is still playing them. The fact is the choose your own adventure thing is still very much there. Just play it and have fun.
I’m so hard gay for…
Really?? Good post up to this point… /smh
Lol no one cares.
Ewww, you want that fallout penis in your butt with no lube.🤣
Yes that would be good.
After about 20hrs, I couldn’t take it anymore. I popped open the console, increased my carry weight, added a bil creds, set my level to 666, and finally, tgm. Let chaos reign, baby.
I had already added a couple UI mods (because Bethesda still ships UI components at 30fps for whatever reason) and patched the achievement disablement function, so now I feel like I can actually kinda enjoy the game (when I’m not in a loading screen).
I’ve put another 20hrs in playing like this, and have zero regrets. It makes my time in the game feel arcade-like, in a good, nostalgic way. I went from being stressed out and annoyed, to relaxed and able to laugh at the endless jank that we’ve all come to expect from Bethesda. It’s like GTA back in the day… if you weren’t using cheat codes, you were straight up missing out on the fun.
All that said, overall the game does feel like Bethesda threw Fallout, Skyrim, and No Man’s Sky in a blender and then ran it all through a sieve to ensure that only the worst parts made it into the final release. I’m actually shocked by how much they seem to have outright copied elements from NMS (from UI, to gameplay mechanics, to storyline elements). I’ve got hundreds of hours in NMS spread across the last 5ish yrs, and I can’t help but feel kinda greasy when I play Starfield because of how much appears to be straught up lifted from NMS.
Ultimately, Starfield is a new(ish) experience and fun to fuck around in, but if I want to explore space, I’ll go boot up NMS.
I’ve already said “screw it” and started looking up the “get OP early” guides on Youtube, which I generally avoid. If it helps me have more fun then whatever… it’s a game, not a chore.
You can get the Mantis suit and ship early. Kill Spacers, look for note on “secret base”.
Any specific guide you followed? Asking for myself.
Much obliged!
*with a dash of Outer Worlds and Oblivion.
destiny too
Carry weight is the stupidest mechanic of all time, ever in gaming.
Most low level enemies drop weapons that only deal between 3 - 11 damage, which are basically useless against anything higher than level 5. I found some higher level weapons in a shop that dealt 30 - 40 damage and found they made combat much more fun.
As I progressed however, I noticed that enemy levels in a location were distributed:
- 4-5 low level
- 10-15 med level
- 1-5 high level
So there is still a problem with bullet sponges. I keep an overpowered shotgun (med damage, high rate of fire, explosions on crit) with me and just bum rush the high level enemies with that. Otherwise you’d be shooting them all day with your 40 damage rifle.
As you go on, those high level enemies drop weapons that do more damage, so there is progression…. But you also just encounter higher level enemies with more health so the problem continues.
I see that there are already combat rebalance mods on nexus, the kind I’ve used on Fallout games in the past, and I’ll probably install one of those when I decide to start a new play through. (Which, I definitely will. I’m enjoying the game a lot overall despite there being some tedious aspects)
Thanks, I’ll pay closer attention to the weapon damage. Maybe I’m not upgrading enough.
I found that too, and I’d say that kind of design makes sense. For an RPG, it shouldn’t be like Uncharted where anything lying on the ground from your warpath suits the need; there should be reason and investment to get a good gun, then make it better.
I’ve actually been buying up ammo, something I didn’t do in Fallout, because the caliber I get off enemies is puny.
I’m definitely having a hard time giving a fuck about literally anything in SF. Shame but I’m happy to go back to bg3 ig
Old Bethesda is gone and isn’t coming back, I wish people would stop pretending like they aren’t
Just FYI - ammo doesn’t weigh anything. I didn’t notice this for quite a while. If you have some cash go by a couple of gun/ammo shops and just buy out like, all of it. Pretty quickly you’ll get to the point where you have plenty of ammo for any gun you pick up. IMO the upfront cost is super worth not having to worry about having ammo for one gun or the other.
Not to mention if you pick up guns from corpses chests etc, their ammo is added to your stash and you can then toss the now empty gun.
Wait really?? That’s gonna be helpful since I stopped picking up guns that were too heavy to be worth selling. Of course now it’s one more chore to do… between wrestling the horrible UI and the inventory management itself (already a chore even if the UI wasn’t bad), I’m not sure if this tip will be a net gain in fun levels. lol
Tbh I just used the console to increase my carry weight allowance by 500, it’s been a game changer. If you don’t want to do that, remember to use your followers, they usually can carry at least ~130 mass. Then when you get back to your ship, dump all their crap into your ship’s cargo til you get to a vendor and mass sell. Or, in the context of my tip above, to dump all the weapons after you’ve accumulated so much.
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Yeah, if you use a controller just hit LB1 once or twice and it changes to selling from your ship’s inventory in the vendor menu. I’m sure there’s a keyboard binding for it too but I don’t know what key it is, probably the same one you use to change to selling mode.
@bassomitron @Kaymorak @starfield yeah I was wondering if it worked. It didn’t seem to increase my number of bullets
I know for certain it works on my game. If it isn’t for you then it’s either a bug or the weapon you’re using doesn’t use the same ammo as the weapon you picked up.
I can’t even get to “meh” yet. I’m currently trying to get over all the steps backward from Fallout 4. Can’t order companions in battle, can’t swap out weapon mods, can’t use/equip items on pickup without going into menus, and the local maps. Holy crap, the local maps are bad. All that is on top of having to mod the game as usual. StarUI helped a lot, and I had to grab a sound effects mod because there was painful, high-pitched tones in a lot of the interface stuff, but it needs a lot more help. Beth’s games are starting to remind me of a Civilization series or Paradox Interactive situation where the base game is worse than a predecessor at release and doesn’t yield incremental improvement until a robust mod scene/DLC arrives.
I’ve already written off the space gameplay (that was always a long shot for us space sim fans), and if I’m being honest, the loading screen pacing isn’t all that different an experience from how I played Skyrim and FO4. I’m also taking the bullet-sponginess as a challenge to focus on weapon mods. I’m hoping once I get into a self-directed gameplay flow and get used to the quirks of the UI and zone arrangement it’ll get better.
I gotta say though, even though it had its own share of bugs, Baldur’s Gate 3 coming out a month ahead of Starfield does not invite favorable comparisons. The dialogues and quest design in BG3 run circles around what I’m seeing in Starfield so far. The “Back to Vectera” quest in particular was shockingly bad. Having multiple moments where there’s no indication of what to do next until opening the mission log to find a stealth quest update is seriously rough. I’m guessing it was unfinished? I knew there were going to have to be sacrifices made at the procedural generation altar, but seeing even the bespoke elements on the main questline be this bad does not portend well for the overall quality of the game.
Yeah its a little unfair to compare anything to BG3 so bad timing there. I think when Phantom Liberty comes out and a bunch of people jump to Cyberpunk, it’s not gonna help this game much either. lol
It’s really not, lol. In the first hour playing this I kept thinking how dated the facial animations felt. CP2077 has the best faces I’ve seen yet, and it’s not going to have this grey filter all over the place either.
Like hell it isn’t fair!
