For instance Independent contemporary reports, preferably 1st hand. There are none for Jesus. Not even 2nd hand. The oldest parts of the Bible are from 50 years or later after the fact, and written quite some distance away from where it should have allegedly happened, by anonymous writers. The names we apply are fake.
This lack of evidence, is despite the search for evidence of Jesus is by far the greatest ever undertaken. The Catholic Church have spend almost 2000 years now looking for it (since about 2nd century). They have spend huge amounts of money and manpower. That alone is more than anything else, but on top of that, you have for instance Later Day Saints, who have also attempted to find historical evidence. Along with many many other Christian and even non Christian organisations.
To be frank, it’s amazing nobody haven’t been able to make fake evidence that is widely believed. The so called evidence there is, is only called evidence by Christian historians, and does not pass the requirements for actual historical evidence.
Jesus is a fairy tale, It’s very clear if you investigate the history of Christianity, that Jesus was a myth.
It’s also clear if you investigate philosophy at the time, that it was widely believed that something imagined could be believed to be real if you believed it hard enough. We even have some of it today, with for instance faith healing, prosperity gospel, and the idea that if something is imagined to be perfect it must exist, otherwise it isn’t perfect.
Unless you already know, people 2000 years ago, on average, weren’t exactly smarter and more enlightened than people of today. They didn’t even have the scientific method, to show how real knowledge about our world can be achieved way more reliably than with religion.
So superstition was widespread to the extreme, and myths were easily believed.
Christianity being probably the most powerful myth of the time, was believed exactly because it seemed powerful. The same way some Africans name their children Hitler, because it’s a name of power.
So Jesus and god were imagined as being perfect, ergo they must have been real. That’s what it basically boils down to. And there is a surprising LACK of evidence for his existence, making the only rational conclusion that he probably didn’t exist. Not even as one or more normal humans, that have later been build a story around.
Not sure if this a strawman or hyperbole, maybe both.
For most people we have very reasonable claims, consistent stories, and first hand accounts. For Jesus we have absurd claims, inconsistent stories, and hearsay accounts.
Not firsthand: they are all written in Greek not in Aramaic, they reference an event that hasn’t happened yet, none of the apostles (don’t even try Luke) were literate, the Gospels show sophisticated use of writing techniques and references to myths the apostles would not have heard, stuff is missing that should be in there, exact copies of text are found word for word across them, you can see traces of the arguments that were going on decades later, and the godpels dont even claim to be first hand. Oh and the geography of Mark is totally off.
They are not consistent: go ahead and answer these questions
Where was Jesus born? 2. Why did the family go to Bethlehem? 3. Tell me his lineage. 4. What year was he born? 5. How many trips to Jerusalem did he make? 6. How long was the ministry? 7. When did the curtain rip? 8 Who exactly went to the cave? 9. Was the rock there or was it moved? 9
What did they see at the cave? 10. How long was Jesus back on earth for? 11. Was the trial brief like Mark or sitcommish long like in John? 12. What did he say on the cross? 13. What did he say on the way to the cross? 14. What animal(s) did he ride? 15. Did he rebuke the leaper at the temple or not?
These are all off the top of my head. There are hundreds out there.
none of the four gospels even make the claim to be eyewitness to Jesus!
what you claim is “all the reason to believe” is literally an indirect assumption(and cope) that, “well the writers must have at least known someone who knew Jesus, because that is the only way they could have obtained that information!”. this assumes the information wasn’t made up narratively.
i find it weird that you attacked the very idea of asserting that the gospels never witnessed Jesus when there’s nothing to directly suggest so even from the gospels themselves…
your logic is literally “4 people wrote about Nosferatu, therefore Nosferatu can be historically assumed to exist.”
you can worm your assumtion even deeper by also making the claim that “anything that looks like what people describe to be Nosferatu is, IS Nosferatu”, which is a massive logical fallacy.
even something like a direct eyewitness account of what appears to be a real a man transforming into a bat would not prove that man was Nosferatu…
hell, this wouldn’t even prove that the man was a vampire as opposed to a zillion other narrative shape shifting ideas which are more accurate in describing what truly happened, or even that the person turned into a bat at all! it could have been an incredibly clever magic trick.
history is ultimately an incredibly unreliable source of true facts. there are some things in history we can be reasonably sure of, such as the evolution of language, in which historical texts themselves would count as a sort of evidence if we can confirm the age of the texts, but otherwise, evidence has to confirm history, not the other way around…
i heard someone put it well, that if you had to fight a court case to prove that Jesus existed, you would lose based on hear-say and a lack of evidence, as well as having a ton of reasonable doubt for anyone claiming John Wick or whoever existed based on words in a book alone.
How do you know anyone existed in history? You cant have the bodies of every historical figure. This happened 2000 years ago.
For instance Independent contemporary reports, preferably 1st hand. There are none for Jesus. Not even 2nd hand. The oldest parts of the Bible are from 50 years or later after the fact, and written quite some distance away from where it should have allegedly happened, by anonymous writers. The names we apply are fake.
This lack of evidence, is despite the search for evidence of Jesus is by far the greatest ever undertaken. The Catholic Church have spend almost 2000 years now looking for it (since about 2nd century). They have spend huge amounts of money and manpower. That alone is more than anything else, but on top of that, you have for instance Later Day Saints, who have also attempted to find historical evidence. Along with many many other Christian and even non Christian organisations.
To be frank, it’s amazing nobody haven’t been able to make fake evidence that is widely believed. The so called evidence there is, is only called evidence by Christian historians, and does not pass the requirements for actual historical evidence.
Jesus is a fairy tale, It’s very clear if you investigate the history of Christianity, that Jesus was a myth.
It’s also clear if you investigate philosophy at the time, that it was widely believed that something imagined could be believed to be real if you believed it hard enough. We even have some of it today, with for instance faith healing, prosperity gospel, and the idea that if something is imagined to be perfect it must exist, otherwise it isn’t perfect.
Unless you already know, people 2000 years ago, on average, weren’t exactly smarter and more enlightened than people of today. They didn’t even have the scientific method, to show how real knowledge about our world can be achieved way more reliably than with religion. So superstition was widespread to the extreme, and myths were easily believed.
Christianity being probably the most powerful myth of the time, was believed exactly because it seemed powerful. The same way some Africans name their children Hitler, because it’s a name of power.
So Jesus and god were imagined as being perfect, ergo they must have been real. That’s what it basically boils down to. And there is a surprising LACK of evidence for his existence, making the only rational conclusion that he probably didn’t exist. Not even as one or more normal humans, that have later been build a story around.
Not sure if this a strawman or hyperbole, maybe both.
For most people we have very reasonable claims, consistent stories, and first hand accounts. For Jesus we have absurd claims, inconsistent stories, and hearsay accounts.
Removed by mod
They are no consistent and are not firsthand.
Not firsthand: they are all written in Greek not in Aramaic, they reference an event that hasn’t happened yet, none of the apostles (don’t even try Luke) were literate, the Gospels show sophisticated use of writing techniques and references to myths the apostles would not have heard, stuff is missing that should be in there, exact copies of text are found word for word across them, you can see traces of the arguments that were going on decades later, and the godpels dont even claim to be first hand. Oh and the geography of Mark is totally off.
They are not consistent: go ahead and answer these questions
These are all off the top of my head. There are hundreds out there.
Removed by mod
none of the four gospels even make the claim to be eyewitness to Jesus!
what you claim is “all the reason to believe” is literally an indirect assumption(and cope) that, “well the writers must have at least known someone who knew Jesus, because that is the only way they could have obtained that information!”. this assumes the information wasn’t made up narratively.
i find it weird that you attacked the very idea of asserting that the gospels never witnessed Jesus when there’s nothing to directly suggest so even from the gospels themselves…
your logic is literally “4 people wrote about Nosferatu, therefore Nosferatu can be historically assumed to exist.”
you can worm your assumtion even deeper by also making the claim that “anything that looks like what people describe to be Nosferatu is, IS Nosferatu”, which is a massive logical fallacy.
even something like a direct eyewitness account of what appears to be a real a man transforming into a bat would not prove that man was Nosferatu…
hell, this wouldn’t even prove that the man was a vampire as opposed to a zillion other narrative shape shifting ideas which are more accurate in describing what truly happened, or even that the person turned into a bat at all! it could have been an incredibly clever magic trick.
history is ultimately an incredibly unreliable source of true facts. there are some things in history we can be reasonably sure of, such as the evolution of language, in which historical texts themselves would count as a sort of evidence if we can confirm the age of the texts, but otherwise, evidence has to confirm history, not the other way around…
i heard someone put it well, that if you had to fight a court case to prove that Jesus existed, you would lose based on hear-say and a lack of evidence, as well as having a ton of reasonable doubt for anyone claiming John Wick or whoever existed based on words in a book alone.