Counter-counterpoint: Wayland is perfectly fine and production ready and has been for several years now, as long as you’re on AMD or Intel GPUs. The nVidia drivers are still undercooked and not ready for proper daily use.
My desktop crashed three times so far after updating gnome, linux kernel and nvidia driver two days ago. Not sure who’s the culprit, but I’ll blame nvidia by default.
Does multi-monitor sets work yet? Does it still randomly crashes when logging out? Does it have support for touch monitors already? Is Pipewire support ready? Is the Compose key still broken? Does it handle internationalization better now? Does accessibility software like on screen keyboards and screen readers already work on it?
I love Wayland, BTW, the more secure ecosystem is a net positive. But we can’t pretend it isn’t a lot of effort for something that has no tangible difference or immediate advantage for the end user, is extra work for developers and currently has a higher potential for errors, malfunctions and missing features that are taken for granted. Again, it’s a worthy endeavor to improve something that already works, but that also means there’s no rush. We can afford to wait.
It hasn’t done that for the 1.5 years that I have been using it for.
Is Pipewire support ready?
Yes. It’s so ready that even ubuntu uses it with wayland by default.
Does it have support for touch monitors already
Yes. It, in fact, has better support than x org.
Does it handle internationalization better now?
I don’t know about the problem with i18n but I don’t think this will affect most users.
Onscreen keyboard is still a pain to run but maliit works on kde+gnome/wayland. When was the last time you used wayland dude? I am not trying to sound this argumentative. If I do, my apologies but I have been listening to these same points being regurgitated over and over again when they have been fixed long ago.
No offense, but your argument is exactly like “electric cars are still undercooked and not ready for proper daily use because I still have to put gasoline in mine and can’t afford one”.
Sure, but at the end of the day, for better or for worse, there are going to be tons of people who simply don’t care about whose fault it is - they’re going to want their system to work.
I was lucky enough that I was finally able to make enough money to swap out my 2080 with a 6700 XT this week (and wow what a significant difference in how the Linux desktop works with AMD cards), but I have plenty of friends who do have Nvidia cards and if they asked me whether they should give Linux a try I’d have to warn them that they’re going to get a subpar experience due to it - and all they’re going to hear despite me saying that it’s Nvidia’s fault is that Linux isn’t good enough.
So when it comes to Wayland + Nvidia, hopefully Nvidia gets with the program, but otherwise we’re (the Linux community) going to be at a crossroads of whether we want to get more adoption on Linux - Nvidia is not a small market by any means.
I don’t go and try to proselytize people into coming over to Linux, but there are absolutely plenty of people who do and the mindset of “It’s not Linux’s fault, its X (ha)” isn’t exactly going to work there.
I don’t have personal experience with nvidia graphics. How does proprietary work now? I have heard it’s gotten great this last year? Or is it horrible still?
I haven’t found any issues except sometimes when I switch to another window out of baldur’s gate 3 and switch back again, baldur’s gate 3 freezes. Not sure if it’s the game not being Linux native or the driver.
Mostly all. At work we have to use teamviewer. Remote from Wayland to others work but you can’t connect from another client to a wayland client. Tried hoptodesk, ruskdesk etc. always the same.
Wayland integration with most DEs is absolutely incomplete regardless of Nvidia support. Wayland causes a ton of bugs every time I try to use it with KDE. There are still bugs even with GNOME like wine applications not working or screen sharing not working. So no I will not be using Wayland until it’s ready for everyday usage, which it isn’t right now.
He’s a thought. Stop being a power nerd, stfu and let people use what they want.
Counter-counterpoint: Wayland is perfectly fine and production ready and has been for several years now, as long as you’re on AMD or Intel GPUs. The nVidia drivers are still undercooked and not ready for proper daily use.
My desktop crashed three times so far after updating gnome, linux kernel and nvidia driver two days ago. Not sure who’s the culprit, but I’ll blame nvidia by default.
Does multi-monitor sets work yet? Does it still randomly crashes when logging out? Does it have support for touch monitors already? Is Pipewire support ready? Is the Compose key still broken? Does it handle internationalization better now? Does accessibility software like on screen keyboards and screen readers already work on it?
I love Wayland, BTW, the more secure ecosystem is a net positive. But we can’t pretend it isn’t a lot of effort for something that has no tangible difference or immediate advantage for the end user, is extra work for developers and currently has a higher potential for errors, malfunctions and missing features that are taken for granted. Again, it’s a worthy endeavor to improve something that already works, but that also means there’s no rush. We can afford to wait.
Yes.
It hasn’t done that for the 1.5 years that I have been using it for.
Yes. It’s so ready that even ubuntu uses it with wayland by default.
Yes. It, in fact, has better support than x org.
I don’t know about the problem with i18n but I don’t think this will affect most users.
Onscreen keyboard is still a pain to run but maliit works on kde+gnome/wayland. When was the last time you used wayland dude? I am not trying to sound this argumentative. If I do, my apologies but I have been listening to these same points being regurgitated over and over again when they have been fixed long ago.
Counter-counter-counterpoint: I have a rtx 3050 and not enough money just lying around to upgrade to an AMD just for Wayland.
Still, 100% nVidia’s fault, not Wayland.
No offense, but your argument is exactly like “electric cars are still undercooked and not ready for proper daily use because I still have to put gasoline in mine and can’t afford one”.
Sure, but at the end of the day, for better or for worse, there are going to be tons of people who simply don’t care about whose fault it is - they’re going to want their system to work.
I was lucky enough that I was finally able to make enough money to swap out my 2080 with a 6700 XT this week (and wow what a significant difference in how the Linux desktop works with AMD cards), but I have plenty of friends who do have Nvidia cards and if they asked me whether they should give Linux a try I’d have to warn them that they’re going to get a subpar experience due to it - and all they’re going to hear despite me saying that it’s Nvidia’s fault is that Linux isn’t good enough.
So when it comes to Wayland + Nvidia, hopefully Nvidia gets with the program, but otherwise we’re (the Linux community) going to be at a crossroads of whether we want to get more adoption on Linux - Nvidia is not a small market by any means.
I don’t go and try to proselytize people into coming over to Linux, but there are absolutely plenty of people who do and the mindset of “It’s not Linux’s fault, its X (ha)” isn’t exactly going to work there.
I get it, you get it, but plenty of people won’t.
You running the proprietary drivers or Nouveau?
Proprietary because I game and I had some screen tearing issues with nouveau.
I don’t have personal experience with nvidia graphics. How does proprietary work now? I have heard it’s gotten great this last year? Or is it horrible still?
I haven’t found any issues except sometimes when I switch to another window out of baldur’s gate 3 and switch back again, baldur’s gate 3 freezes. Not sure if it’s the game not being Linux native or the driver.
Happy to hear that you’re having a decent experience :)
Remote tools aren’t working on Wayland.
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Mostly all. At work we have to use teamviewer. Remote from Wayland to others work but you can’t connect from another client to a wayland client. Tried hoptodesk, ruskdesk etc. always the same.
… for you.
I regularly do presentations for work and in Wayland I can’t play a video in a slide deck if presenting on an external display.
Wayland integration with most DEs is absolutely incomplete regardless of Nvidia support. Wayland causes a ton of bugs every time I try to use it with KDE. There are still bugs even with GNOME like wine applications not working or screen sharing not working. So no I will not be using Wayland until it’s ready for everyday usage, which it isn’t right now.
He’s a thought. Stop being a power nerd, stfu and let people use what they want.