You can’t get rid of it, you can only hide it: Microsoft imposes controversial Windows Backup on users::Like it or not, the Windows Backup app installed in Windows 10 and Windows 11 is here to stay, with Microsoft calling it a “system component” that can’t be
Yup, that ai generated image kills me more than the news.
“YouTube face” is annoying enough scrolling through videos, but it’s even more unnecessary here!
Holy shit. Just not “no” when it asks if you want to set up backup, and keep using what you already use.
It’s less difficult than falling over.
It’s always sad to see users being mistreated like this but what never ceases to amuse me is the amount of time that Windows users are willing to waste in order to remove all this trash from their systems and have a usable experience, only for it to be ruined again with something worse with the next update. At this point, they either don’t know that alternatives exist or they have Stockhom syndrome or something.
I used to do that A LOT and you can still find all my old guides on my website as a testament to that, they were soooo long, it took hours to do a “clean install”, they took days to write, and even then I would run into so many issues because of Windows Update… One day I realized that I was doing more work to make Windows usable than the average Arch user and I just gave up. Linux wasn’t ready for gaming yet so I had to dual boot for a while, but thankfully that’s not a problem anymore. I couldn’t be happier.
I’m aware of all of this, but most of the software I use is Windows only. Recommending GIMP/whatever seems like enough to a proud Linux user, but it really just doesn’t cut it. I’m savvy enough to get rid of all the stuff I hate about windows or switch to Linux, but I’m comfortable enough to stay with wondoes
I only run Linux on my server, but even so I feel like I can run almost everything I ever use on Windows, or an equivalent on it. MacOS exclusive apps are actually a bigger problem for me.
For image editing, GIMP was commonly recommended like a decade+ ago, and it’s still a decent option if it’s what you’re looking for. But now there are several alternative, mature tools that are Linux native, like Krita, Inkscape, Darktable, etc… The Affinity suite is usable on Linux via Bottles, as are some versions of Adobe suite, like Photoshop.
It’s unfortunate that MMOs and competitive games generally have poor linux support. Mostly because of anticheats. It’s the only reason I still have windows on my gaming PC.
The MMO I play mostly works on Linux via Proton just fine. (And when it does have the occasional flaw, it’s something accidental, like breaking the exit function so you have to kill the process instead.)
Bingo, Linux is catching up but at the moment it’s still lesser in as far as ease and availability to game.
it reminds me of twitter users were reduced to 100 tweets for a while so they’d follow a 30 step workaround to see that 101st tweet but would still say masto is “too complicated”.
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Lol, the thread below this one starts with “So? Sure you can’t get rid of it but also you don’t have to use it.”
Yea, Windows users act like it’s some kind of immovable object that you just have to deal with and that they’re so smart because they spend hours applying some dodgy hack by wading through that god awful registry editor rather than just editing config files and having full control over their system. Oh no but then they’d have to open the terminal which is such a problem for them.
MacOS has had time machine for over a decade.
How is this different except for the fact it’s not our Lord and Savior Linux?
I don’t remember Time Machine backing up to someone else’s server.
iCloud does, and if memory serves you can’t remove that either. But like iCloud, you can simply not sign in.
You can always finely control what goes into iCloud and what does not.
Time Machine backups have to be opted-in if you want to save it to iCloud.
You have to enable iCloud to upload to it. I’ve been uploading to local encrypted disks for years
So the same thing here.
I’ve been on Windows since 3.0 (not 3.1) and MS-DOS, back when DR-DOS was a thing and IBM’s OS/2 was a rising star, and the joke about how if operating systems were airlines, Linux would be the one where all the passengers bring parts and tools and build it on the runway themselves.
Oh, how the turns have tabled. Today, I installed Debian 12 with GNOME DE on an old 2010 MacBook, and then installed Budgie Desktop on top of that as an optional profile. It fucking screams on 13 year old hardware, lol. I’m not even done trying out all the distros and DEs I want to try out; that’s just one. When I’m done playing with that I’ll blow it away and install a different distro instead. And I didn’t pay a penny for any of them.
There is literally no reason for me to stay on the sick, bloated advertising delivery/data collection system that is Microsoft Windows.
I’ve grown up with windows (started with windows 95 in elementary school) and have been a Linux user since 2009. Watching windows decline and the Linux desktop grow and mature has been quite the ride. I’ve been distro-hopping for years and have finally settled on Debian Testing. It does exactly what I tell it to do. It helps me accomplish whatever task I’m doing and then gets out of the way.
Windows on the other hand is the polar opposite of that. Constantly nagging you to use OneDrive. New panels and “experiences” popping up out of nowhere. Unskippable OOBEs after a major update that force you to navigate some dark pattern if you have the audacity to resist using a Microsoft account. The telemetry that you know is running under the hood 24/7. Hands and knees begging you to use Edge to open PDFs?!?! Using windows today is like using Clippy - the operating system.
Linux has come such a long way, and outside of some proprietary edge cases, I can no longer imagine using Windows as a daily driver
Yep.
Windows 10 was the window into what was to come and how microsoft wanted to ruin windows in the future, Which was further
ruined“refined” in 11.I’m on linux to stay now, now that I’ve ironed out most of my problems, the only issues I have anymore are manufactured and artificial issues, like Amazon refusing to stream in anything higher than 360p because my system isnt “secure”, or like AMDs stupid convoluted AMDRewards system not working.
Yes. When I first booted up Linux Mint – the first distro I had tried since Red Hat came on a dozen or so 3.5" floppies – I couldn’t believe it. I was expecting something a LOT less developed and shiny, but no – and Mint is one of the lighter ones. That’s why I’m trying so many, including ones I already know I won’t use as a daily driver, because they’re all fully fledged, completely operable computing environments.
If it hadn’t been for MS Office I’d have done this long before now, especially when I got into a mandatory-Windows-Upgrade-and-break loop a couple years ago. But I absolutely despise the newer Office versions; they seem to break more with each release. If I have to go back to older versions to run it on Linux, that’s just one more favor the FOSS community will be doing for me.
Clippy - the operating system.
Jfc, lol. At least Clippy wasn’t all up in my shorts and sending the data back to the mothership. Gotta ask, though, given your age: did you ever get to use Microsoft Bob? You probably don’t remember all the commercials; it was Faith Ford hawking MS Bob every time you turned on the tv. But using it, omfg. You boot up into a “living room.” I shit you not. MSBob was a . . . really fucking weird five minutes, lol.
As a non windows user, can someone explain to be what all the fuss is about? It sounds like people are grumpy that they’re being shown a feature that they can’t use or don’t want to use, and MS is going to let people hide the UI for that.
What is wrong with this solution? Are people not going to be happy until every spec of the feature’s code is stripped from the OS?
It’s another way of trying to force users into using OneDrive, Microsoft’s cloud service, and paying for the privilege. It’s not a big deal for the tech savvy, but it’s a great way to capture subscriptions from those that are not. Using it also requires a Microsoft account.
The thing is, if you can’t uninstall it, then Windows will repeatedly try to shove the feature into your face, until you enable it again
I got a pop-up that said:
“Hey we have backup to OneDrive now! Do you want to turn it on?”. [Yes/no/don’t ask again]My options were remind me in 1 week, or remind me in 30 days
Can confirm, I get that on my school computers everytime I boot. Even if I click 30 days. There are no never option
Yes, it’s worth noting that some companies will do A/B tests, where one user is offered one choice, and another gets a different one. It’s possible for the two of you to have had a different experience.
I haven’t had any pop-up about this.
What’s wrong with having a built-in backup feature?
There’s nothing inherently wrong with having a backup software, but Microsoft has a terrible track record with every other “system component” that can push data to MS Cloud about making the software nag-ware to make you cave and buy more Microsoft products just to make the warnings go away, sometimes for an inferior product. See note at OneDrive, Cortana, Edge, and Bing just off the top of my head without doing any research.
So for me, I have several computers all protected by Synology backup. It goes to an appliance I own and control, not the cloud. This setup can be used to completely restore the entirety of a computer with the exception of firmware even if the main operating system is so fried automatic startup repair doesn’t work.
But, in the past, despite having a 24 hour recovery point with this system (every night it backs up any data that changed since the previous backup, including core OS files), Windows backup would be default still nag me about setting it up. It wouldn’t bother to even try to detect a third party backup tool in the same way that Defender does for third party security software. I had to run some specific setup options to make Windows backup go away (and I can’t remember since it was some years ago, but it may have involved removing the component). By comparison on my older Mac, when I turned off Time Machine to use Synology backup, I think I got one warning about shutting it down then it didn’t say anything else.
I don’t keep important data on my PC and a back costs space for no needed reason and why add bloat if you don’t need it have it as an option great but forced why (edit also who knows what they are doing with the backup it’ll probably be rolled into OneDrive then guess what Microsoft has even easier access to your data)
Windows could do that whether or not it’s installed.
But they said they’re going to allow the user to hide it.
Are people grumpy about burning hard disk space for a feature they don’t use? Every operating system is littered with convenience features that not everyone enables. Why does this feature strike a nerve?
These days Win10 & Win11 only let you temporarily hide things you don’t want. The next major update resets the settings, especially if it’s for a feature that could potentially earn MS money, like ads in the start menu, cortana in the tray, microsoft account nags and onedrive nags.
I think you’ll find a number of… specific OS users, let’s call them, who will tout that they can uninstall anything from their OS without complaint or warning. Same response as being unable to completely uninstall internet explorer back in the day.
How dare you, its GNU/Specific OS, or how I call it GNU + Specific OS.
It feels like lemmy is getting preachier by the minute. Its gotten obnoxious. Not 110% of the softwate you use is foss and you drink milk? What kind of monster are you.
It sounds like people are grumpy that they’re being shown a feature that they can’t use or don’t want to use,
That’s the problem right there. They’re trying to sell you a new feature. That’s an ad. Ads have no place in an operating system.
When does something become an OS feature and when is it an add-on? Consider the use case. If you need to make a backup or restore data from one, by having this as part of the OS it is always available. It’s line having vi installed; it comes with every Linux distro, but a lot of folks use Emacs. It makes sense that this should be a system component.
Windows bad. Linux good. Now go find a study with content that fits this narrative.
So? Sure you can’t get rid of it but also you don’t have to use it.
Despite what this article is trying to imply you’re not actually forced to do any backups, so Microsoft are not seeing your information. Also it’s probably be encrypted anyway, but who knows.
You don’t have to use it, so this entire article is basically a big while load of nothing.
Why should I waste hard drive space that I paid for to store a component that I neither require nor utilize? If I’m already on a machine that is pretty close to my drive limitations (and I am), why should I simply accept further reduction in my computer’s capabilities?
This was the same argument Microsoft made about Internet Explorer during the antitrust lawsuit. Yet somehow, when faced with the possibility of a forced split, they managed to find a way.
Realistically, you’re probably not utilizing a good 90% of your operating system’s features on Windows. Is this backup crap good? No, but it’s also a drop in a bucket.
Sure, but stuff like defrag, etc. are there for good reasons, and I’ll be glad to have them if I ever do need them. Onedrive and Backup are literally only there to make Microsoft money, and having them on my system will never be of benefit to me.
By using Windows, you probably already opted in to these things from accepting their EULA. It’s a shitty practice, but it’s well within their purview.
It’s also well within the users purview to complain about it… Also for people to figure out how to rip it out of a system as well.
What’s in the EULA? That the software is installed, what are you complaining about exactly?
If you don’t use the software it’s irrelevant.
I’m not complaining about anything. I agree with you that it’s irrelevant, just turn it off
I’m not trying to claim they aren’t allowed to do it. The fact that it’s legal doesn’t make it right.
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People do have control over their devices You have the control to not use the application.
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Lemme guess. You’re against auto-updating, too?
Yeah? Obviously? If they roll out a update that fucks up your computer you’re out of luck. Sure you should always have recent backups but it might be more time effective to wait till all the bugs are fixed.
Not even to mention that I should have the final say in what happens with a device that I brought and own.
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It might be a preview of whats coming though, MS would conceivably at some point move to a cloud based OS completely at some point
thats their plan they’ve stated elsewhere.
Pretty sure the next thing we’ll see after 11 is cloud desktop, judging by the scuttlebutt
You should read EULA every once in a while.
“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to”, for example, “protect their customers” or “enforce the terms governing the use of the services”.
With Windows10 you already accepted that they will collect and share data. What is good faith to them remains to be seen but as a rule of hand I don’t trust them for anything. In short, yes… Microsoft is seeing your information.
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Spoken like a true Stockholm syndrome Windows user.
I’m sorry I don’t care about what you care about as much as you do.
Who cares? Windows has included a backup app of some sort since NT. The only way this is more than click bait would be if they were forcing you to use it.
It’s nothing like the old backup apps. They were useful this is more forced cloud spyware which at this point is the entire OS now
I consider everyone still using Windows by now to be masochists of the worst kind.
Who would want to have backups of important files on a Microsoft server? Probably located in the USA, where it’s contents are free game for the snooping agencies? If you are not a US citizen (and even that is no real protection) they will hoover every byte about you “just in case”.
Not masochists, just people with very different needs, privacy concerns and overall tech knowledge than you. Not sure why this is hard to understand by some folks.
Yep. The general “I don’t care what I’m doing” crowd. Serves them well that they simply ignore the facts steamrolling them.
I think you’re the one ignoring the fact that Windows is the right OS for some people. Everyone has different needs and limitations. There’s not one OS that is the right solution for everyone, just like there’s no Linux distribution that is right for everyone.
While it might be the right OS for some people, it is actually the worst choice for the majority. And I would say that for those people for whom it is the best choice, it just is for the wrong reasons.
From my personal perspective, the right way to steer people into Linux is to highlight the key features you feel are the best. You don’t need to say Windows is bad, only that Linux is amazing. If you just tell people they’re masochists and wrong they’ll just ignore you. Have a nice day!
I think most people prioritise feeding and sheltering themselves over spending time and energy on something that doesn’t really make sense to them.
I’m waiting for the inevitable Lemmy comment from an engineer or sys admin that tells me to install Linux.
Well I’m neither of those. I’m not a tech bro and I don’t really understand computers well or what a tick tock does. I’m just an old dude who’s been using standard desktop stuff since windows 3.1 and DOS before that.
You should install Linux unless you absolutely need either commercial architecture software or Excel for specific things.
MS is the devil and windows sucks balls. I use windows on a work machine and it is objectively worse than most Linux flavours.
Start on Mint or KDE Neon if you’re coming from windows.
As they say, don’t knock it till you try it.
Windows has fallen billions must install TempleOS
I mean you seem to understand the solution but keep doing it wrong anyway
Well have you installed Linux yet?
Got it on some stuff in the house, but my daily driver another OS in the *nix family.
Well, it is only consequential. I mean, the guys know.
Same people who already use OneDrive since that’s all “backup” means here.
Yup. $100/year for all the office apps/programs plus 1TB of backup for all 6 people in my family. Decent deal IMO since I’m paying at least that for PS+ yearly.
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Use local accounts only and do not login to a Microsoft account.
Edit: In my situation, I used an MS account during a reinstall and disabled backups and logged out quickly after. There are methods to still do an offline install, from what I understand.
Disabling backup is annoying, but not hard.
You also can’t use a work or school account, according to Microsoft:
Important: You must use a personal Microsoft account with Windows Backup. Work or school Microsoft accounts won’t work.
There is also no way to use the backup app with local storage, like an external hard drive; you can ONLY back up to OneDrive with this.
EDITED to clarify: for now, you can still back up to another drive, but it’s a different process and the “advanced settings” needed to do so are buried several layers deep.
Is that possible on Windows 11?
Yes. I had to do that on my latest reinstall. I had to create a local account after the install and log out of my MS account. It really tried to force backups, which is super annoying.
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I quickly tried, but I gave up as I just needed the install done. It didn’t occur to me to pull the network cable as that may have worked. If I remember what I was reading at the time correctly, it will take a bit for the option to show to do an offline install if you don’t have a network connection. (I could be completely wrong on that! It’s been a couple of months already.)
This isn’t new
Seriously, look at the link. If you want to use an external drive, for example, or a different cloud account, it’s a different process and the settings are buried several layers deep.
If the new app were like the old versatile backup tool you picture here, there would be no issue.
Wait, really? I’m currently using my university account to back up some folders to OneDrive (provided by my University), and it saved my butt last November when my SSD borked out of nowhere.
That’s what it says. From the same link as above, just below Step 1:
Important: You must use a personal Microsoft account with Windows Backup. Work or school Microsoft accounts won’t work.
I think it’s because to restore you MUST sign in with the same account you backed up with; if you drop out or get fired, you probably won’t have access to that account again. They may also be throwing back any email address with .edu, though that seems a step too far. I haven’t tried, that’s just my guess: they don’t want angry users screaming at them when they can’t get their shit back down from the cloud.
You can’t get rid of it, you can only hide it
Not exactly true, there are ways you can remove system components, what they really mean is that Microsoft Doesn’t want you to and will fight you as much as possible to prevent you from doing so. The biggest barrier in doing it is that you’ll have to figure out your way through it on your own because it’s “not supported” and most people won’t give help or support for these kinds of modifications.
You got to love all the ads that are now a part of windows
And here is the CEO complaining that Google uses unfair policies to push it’s apps. Fuck both of them.
All I’ve wanted for a decade is a built-in backup solution to rival Time Machine but noOOoooO…
I had OneDrive randomly dump a chunk of my files into the website Recycle Bin so I never touched it again. (Yes I know user error is the usual thought but I would have known about dragging multiple things from different folders since at the time all my photos, documents, etc were up there.)
File History I still use but that’s janky, occasionally crashes in the Settings (this is on multiple machines with W10, haven’t touched 11) and wouldn’t backup iCloud Drive. (which I’ve since dumped too since I have a glitch support hasn’t been able to fix that results in broken sync in iCloud for Windows and rapidly ballooning logs)
I’m wondering if it’s even backing up files or just saving to cloud which isn’t a backup.
I wouldnt call it backup. It is keeping versions of a file. Its keeping deleted files for a while, in the recycle bin. But you have to use the web interface to access those. Nor can you restore entire folders in one go, like File History could. File History works still, but one cant manually run the “delete all but the latest/last month/last year” job anymore. It just fails. The restore function works (well, I havent tested it after the new patch though).
Also, cloud copying the entire Documents folder? Theres so damn much crap and cache files put there. You gonna double your internet usage when playing some games, just for the cache files that is added, downloaded, changed, uploaded again and again. I’m glad I aint on a limit, but a lot of people in the rest of the world are.
