• spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    11 days ago

    Ah, we have a difference in terms here.

    Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality

    is never ableist.

    Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality

    can be ableist, depending on what values are being cast.

    It’s about how intelligence is framed in relation to others and whether it’s used to dismiss people who might not fit those standards.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      11 days ago

      Ah, we have a difference in terms here.

      Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality

      is never ableist.

      Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality

      can be ableist, depending on what values are being cast.

      I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality is acknowledging intelligence as a quality.

      It’s about how intelligence is framed in relation to others and whether it’s used to dismiss people who might not fit those standards.

      So it’s your opinion that the upholding of standards that cannot be met by some individuals by inherent lack of capacity is unacceptable?

      • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        11 days ago

        Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality is acknowledging intelligence as a quality.

        Here’s an example where it’s not: “Of course you got in, you [are(n’t) Asian/were in the gifted program/have ASD].”

        These examples are rare bifecta of ✅ acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality ✅ casting value judgement on those who do or do not fit that quality

        • PugJesus@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 days ago

          I don’t see how that doesn’t acknowledge intelligence as a quality.

          Like, I’m not trying to play this off as some kind of rebuttal, I’m just genuinely not understanding what’s being said.

          casting value judgement on those who do or do not fit that quality

          But all acknowledgements of intelligence as a positive quality necessarily carry an implicit value judgement of those who lack that positive quality.

          • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            11 days ago

            But all acknowledgements of intelligence as a positive quality necessarily carry an implicit value judgement of those who lack that positive quality.

            Maybe for you, but not for me. I can congratulate the Olympic gold medalist for her achievement without having any repressive or denigrating judgment toward all the other competitors. Can’t you? The value judgement I express in that scenario is, at worst, neutral.

            • PugJesus@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              11 days ago

              I can congratulate the Olympic gold medalist for her achievement without having any repressive or denigrating judgment toward all the other competitors. Can’t you? The value judgement I express in that scenario is, at worst, neutral.

              Tell me, if someone has a positive quality, and another lacks that quality, the difference between them is:

              A. Positive

              B. Neutral

              C. Negative

              ?

              • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                11 days ago

                I don’t understand your question I’m sorry. But can’t you congratulate the medalist without doing judgement on the non-medalists?

                • PugJesus@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  11 days ago

                  Any congratulations of the medalists necessarily implies that they have done better than the non-medalists. While the intent is not to denigrate, it is, implicitly, denigration of the results, whether deserved or undeserved, of the non-medalists. Any positive judgement necessarily creates a vacuum of negative judgement for those who do not meet it, and unless you regard all things as value-indistinguishable, such positive judgements are inevitably made.

                  • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    11 days ago

                    You perceive one value scale:

                    • better/worse

                    I perceive two entirely separate, non-causal scales.

                    • Good at back handsprings/bad at back handsprings
                    • greater in value or explicit worth/lesser in value or explicit worth