No, you just can’t recognize when you’re wrong and someone is kindly trying to meet you half way anyways.

I DECLARE A MORE OPTIMIZED RUN TIiIIIIME

Ok, I see what you’re saying ,but from what I can see, if you were to scale a sciter app to the level of VSCode, it is not going to use any less resources.

Yes sciter is smaller for a simple calc app, but once you have multiple ui panes running in different threads, plus a backend server, it looks like it would scale it exactly the same resource usage as Electron.

Not every single episode was a smash hit but they weren’t dull and this writer’s takes are bad (aim them at children??).

Pac Man, Warhammer, Armoured Core, and Sifu, were all fantastic, and The Outer Worlds one was pretty good (better than Mickey17 imho). The DnD one was kind of boring, as was mega man and spelunky, but the fantastic episodes are 100% worth watching and I haven’t finished all of them yet.

The PacMan one really stuck with me.

No, because you haven’t. You’ve brought up examples that all bring their own overhead, complications, and testing issues.

Once again, at a fundamental level, if I develop an Electron app on Linux or Windows, I can generate an installer and am basically guaranteed that it will work on MacOS because the Electron rendering stack works on MacOS and I am shipping my full rendering stack alongside my app.

A WebView solution that uses the system’s WebView cannot possibly provide that.

A specifically versioned runtime like Java can potentially provide that, though if you were to expand Java to support the out of the box high level rendering of html / CSS then you’re basically turning the JRE into the size of a full browser engine anyways, especially if you were to expand it to support a pleasant and flexible language like JavaScript.

And again, you’re refusing to acknowledge that VSCode is built in Electron, and is not a resource hog, despite being possibly the most powerful Electron program most people will run, once again, showing that Electron is not that much of a resource hog, badly coded web apps are.

I fully acknowledge that Election apps use more storage and slightly more ram than equivalents written in Native Languages, but if you’re experiencing actual slow downs due to them, then it’s probably because they’re badly written.

And I reject the idea that the opportunity cost of slowing down software development is worth it. App distribution used to be over optimized for efficiency rather than resiliency.

gave React Native as an example of an alternative approach to using a browser engine for rendering. Try to work on that reading comprehension of yours.

Yeah, I’m aware. I pointed out why your example was dumb.

A lot of people do feel that it’s a resource hog because well it is a resource hog. The fact that you don’t understand that is truly incredible.

No, badly written apps are badly written, and perennially online nerds coalesce around hating the same things for validation, which in this case is Electron.

Yes, there are opportunity costs. I understand perfectly well why Electron is popular. It makes it easier to crap out something that sort of works. There’s a huge benefit to the developer and a huge cost to the user.

You keep ignoring the point that VSCode, amongst many other great apps, is written with Electron.

Youre bitching about the fact the fact that Electron lowers the barrier of entry, and confusing that for Electron being fundamentally bad.

i.e. Discord doesn’t suck because it’s written with Electron, it sucks because it’s developers / product managers never prioritized making it not suck.

Bruh, I’ve been developing web apps for over a decade now. You don’t have to introduce me to anything. The reality is that most apps aren’t that complex and if you’re using something like React, a lot of the details are already handled for you.

XD XD XD

You mean … Webpack? React handles nothing of web compatibility for you.

We’re comparing with Electron here lmfao.

I literally quoted you talking about using react Native instead. Try and remember what you wrote.

If by works great you mean hogs resources like no tomorrow and is able to bring modern hardware to its knees to render a simple crud app, then sure.

Oh yeah, that’s how everyone feels about VS Code. What a horrendous resource hog! No developer would ever use it!

/S

Again, there are opportunity costs to other frameworks. There is a reason Electron is so popular and it’s not because it’s terrible.

I mean you would just test on each platform, which you should be doing regarding of what you’re developing with.

Yes, except the platform your developing for with Electron is the browser engine you ship alongside it, so you are constantly testing it and it will always work.

With Tauri the platform your developing for is now whatever the underlying OS chooses to use to render it’s WebView. It is flat out impossible to test for every os and WebView so you have no guarantee that your application will even render once it’s installed.

And again, if you develop on a Windows or Linux machine, there is flat out no way to test on Safari without buying a Mac, but you can reliably expect your Electron app to just work.

Also worth noting that web standards are a thing, and vast majority of apps aren’t so complex that they would run into edge cases between browser engine implementations.

Lmao. Bruh, I’d like to introduce you to this little known WebView called Safari.

The vast majority of web apps will run into compatibility issues between safari, Firefox, and chrome. There is nowhere close to enough standardization for that.

However, this isn’t an inherent problem since you could build something like Tauri and package its own lean rendering engine with it. Sciter-js is an example of this approach. Other examples can be seen with React Native and Proton. The main point here is that the bloat the Electron brings to the table is wholly unjustified, and far more efficient approaches are possible.

Lol, you’ve clearly never installed a React Native app if you think there’s no bloat.

No, the point is that you want it to be unjustified but it’s not. Electron works great, is incredibly easy to setup and ship with extremely little overhead beyond storage. The opportunity cost of solutions that don’t bundle dependencies are almost never worth it.

There’s a reason the most popular IDE used by virtually every software developer these days is built using Electron.

Yes, and now you can’t test your application before shipping it because who knows what browser engine will actually run it.

You could develop it on Windows and have it completely break for every single Mac user when it executes in Safari and have literally no way of knowing or testing that ahead of time.

No we wouldn’t, and this is a crazy take when like half of Linux runs on interpreted python.

You’re min/maxing for things that don’t matter. You know what does matter? User facing features. You know what language in unquestionably the fastest to produce user facing features in? JavaScript/HTML/CSS.

If you want to optimize for performance you can do so after by moving things server side, writing them in web assembly, or offloading them onto other threads.

There’s also massive opportunity cost in a) programming in low level languages, and b) having every developer have to learn a low level language. There’s a reason that we don’t all code in assembly any more.

No, we just don’t mislabel foreign brain drain as American exceptionalism.

Because storage is cheap, so it’s not worth optimizing that heavily for, because the optimization creates a huge amount of headaches.

There’s a reason that today you can just download an app, and it just installs, runs, and uninstalls itself cleanly.

There’s no fighting with dependencies, or installing versions of libraries or frameworks before you can install an app, or having apps conflict with other apps, or having bits of app installations lying around conflicting with things.

That’s because we used to spend a lot of time and effort making sure that only a single copy of each dependency was installed on a system. If two apps both relied on the same library, one would install it, and the other would then be dependent on it as well and not install its own copy. If the original is removed you have a problem. If it thinks something else is dependent on its asset still and doesn’t remove it when it should you’ve got a problem. If they were both dependent on different major versions of a library, you could run into conflicts and compatibility issues (hello dll hell). Either the apps would have to manage all that, or the OS would, or eventually the user often would.

Now every app just bundles all its dependencies with it. It means the app comes as a clean bundle, there’s no conflicts, it can install cleanly, and there’s so much less time spend on packaging apps and debugging various system configurations.

Quite frankly this makes way more sense as a model for distributing anything. Yes it costs more in storage, but it pays off massively in resiliency and time savings for everyone.

Also, unless everything is done with vectors, high def image / video assets are not small and can very quickly add up.

The US isn’t innovating jack shit.

The US just created a massively polarized and unequal society so that when a country creates a new brilliant researcher or innovation, an American company can buy them out.

Basically, the insane poverty and lack of government services that the average American experiences gives them enough cash to buy up innovative people, companies, and competitors.

Some people don’t seem to realize that Black Mirror is not a deep exploration of how far technology can go, but a deep exploration of how far the writers’ anxiety and pessimism can go.

That’s not what democracy is.

Democracy is simply a system of government where leaders are voted on instead of inheriting their title or gaining it through physical force and coercion.

The original form of democracy had slavery, and excluded women and non-land owners, the word simply distinguishes which mechanism brings someone to power, it doesn’t inherently imply fairness or free choice.

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So many options that amount to more than just a shape tool.

If I wanted to learn some arcane bullshit to draw a circle Id just learn C++.

What a waste of time. Both the article and the researchers.

Literally by the time their research was published, it was using irrelevant models, on top of the fact that, yeah, that’s how LLMs work. That would be obvious from 5m of using them.

While I generally agree, I have seen the argument that grass will grow in thin soil where crops will not, so you can theoretically turn land that’s unusable for crops into being usable for producing beef…

But that was more of a land use argument than an environmental one.

People here are generally going to be distrustful towards the government, and for good reason, this feels like gross overreach imho, but at the same time, I think it’s a little naiive to view all potential terrorists as tech savvy enough to know to use the right open source encryption package. I’m sure this would help them catch some percentage more of attackers.

Again, to be clear, I don’t think that’s remotely worth the damage that unencrypted messaging can do, but there’s enough examples of incompetence and bad opsec amongst criminals to think that someone would just continue to use whatever is most convenient or what their friend told them is good.