my satan. if every decent person only voted for canidates where they agreed with all their stances and actions then only non decent persons would vote. I really feel like folks don’t understand democracy. Its about compromise its impossible to have a democracy that runs exactly as one would want things to go. The only way to get that is if the one is a dictator.
Myself included. Im not going to let the guy whos party complain the current guy is not doing enough for israel and who did that assasination on the iranians and recognized jerusalem as the capital of israel to win.
Ya definitely don’t want Trump to win either. Ideally Biden ends up deciding Israel isn’t worth losing an election over, stops supporting them, and then crushes Trump with the same or more youth votes he got in 2020. Probably with the help of weed legislation, too, but not sure if the young people care about that as much as they used to when I was in the “youth” lol.
ideally republicans can’t win elections anymore and disappear and then its safe for democrats to fission into a more conservative and liberal leaning parties and the incentive to win is to be more left/liberal than the current incentive to be more right.
This assumes that Biden voters want to compromise on genocide. We don’t. We hate it. But life isn’t a storybook. The guy going against the pure evil isn’t a paragon of justice. But that doesn’t mean you give up fighting against pure evil. You prioritize so that you can achieve what is currently achievable, and wait for more to become achievable.
And a lot of people are divisively using a genocide to try and shrink the vote for one candidate when both support it. As the commenter above said, the horrible people won’t care. We all k ow a third party vote is an abstention.
So the choice is vote for the boring candidate that does good things but supports genocide. Or vote for the crazy vindictive candidate that does terrible things and supports genocide and nuking hurricanes.
Or they’re trying to pressure the acting President to change an immoral policy with the threat of lost votes so that he obeys his constituency like he’s in a democracy. He’s got plenty of time to change course and it’s already caused him to make some small measures, like changing his rhetoric and pausing a weapon shipment once.
The term cutting off your nose to spite your face would be appropriate.
I completely agree with pressuring the candidate. However, threatening to lose votes when the opposition might win and do worse damage is a strange kind of brinkmanship that is illogical and doesn’t seem to be working.
I have yet to hear from anyone doing anything co Crete to help the situation who thinks helping trump get elected is good. So, it rings hollow to me. Unfortunately, the ballot box is the most powerful tool at a voters disposal. In this day and age, with money being speech, its not the only option though.
It’s better than doing nothing when tens of thousands of people are dying and a genocide is happening. Unless people are rich, the ballot and protests are all people have, and they’re trying to make protests illegal. I don’t think Palestinians and their friends or families would agree it’s illogical when people demand to do everything to save them, and the idea of solidarity is that you’d want them to do the same for you when they start targeting your group for a genocide. That’s the whole idea of “Never again.” Or like Captain America’s line, “We don’t trade lives.” Of course Trump is bad, but on the other hand, if Biden is actually a good candidate, he’ll shift with popular opinion to keep his job. We shouldn’t have to choose between Hitler and Pol Pot, and if we’re forced to, people shouldn’t be surprised if voter turnout is depressed a bit.
A quick note about how this one is different from other massacres, because that’s usually the next point (why do people care about this situation?) : Unfortunately, we can’t do anything about most of the tragedies and genocides in the world, like the Rohinga or Uyghur, but the thing about this process is that 1) it’s old-style settler colonialism process in the modern day and 2) it’s directly enabled by the US and other imperialist countries, the place where a lot of these commenters live, so they can do something about it by pressuring their leaders and politicians, and starting popular movements to do the same.
Biden is currently in power. Protests should rightly target him. But isn’t it odd that the vote protest doesn’t target Trump?
And again, there are lots of things that can be done beyond votes to help Palestinians. Money and donations are just one thing.
Palestine has been a disaster for years, with a slow burn genocide. Most people and most countries ignored it. So, while o think its good that people care now, many are using it as an excuse to torment distrust rather than genuine concern.
Withholding votes from a note resonavke candidate to increase cha ces for an ectrmeist deranged candidate is .ore likely to lead to more suffering and more genocides. So the action doesn’t match the stated intent.
Well, it does target Trump, too. None of these people say they are going to vote for Trump, either. So by the same logic, they are helping Biden win, too.
Besides, it makes perfect sense you hear Biden’s name more than Trump’s. It’s not as much of a threat, because there’s nothing Trump can do right now to get those votes, because he has no power. Pressuring him wouldn’t help Palestinians right now, before the genocide and ethnic cleansing is complete. With Biden it would. Plus, Trump is clearly trying to get the Zionist vote, leaving no one to get the non-Zionist votes. Biden has the most potential to be that candidate if he is as push-able to the left as people told me was he during the 2020 election. And he has been surprisingly malleable in some matters, so I think it’s possible. They just have to believe those votes can be lost, instead of going towards the Democratic Party because they have nowhere else to go and thus they deserve to get them even without doing anything for those constituents.
They’re not causing distrust, they’re pushing for change. I think the problem is the people on the other side. If everyone hand wringing worried about Biden’s chances vs Trump instead pressured Biden, too, instead of trying to do some moral arithmetic in their head, I guarantee Biden would feel forced to change tactics and go harder on Israel, and we could get actual help for those poor people faster. Then we could all vote for Biden without feeling bad about it.
The single biggest thing Israel has going for it is their support from the US, including their veto in the security council, help with weapons and money, the iron dome, shared technology, they’re trying to make bills making it illegal to criticize Israel or protest universities against our First Amendment, they’re warring in Yemen for this cause, and now they’re trying to interfere in the ICC case and investigation process, too. So while I do agree there are other ways to help, such as the BDS movement, spreading the word of Israel’s history, there are streamers who have volunteered to help refugees and stuff, I still think that getting the US to stop supporting Israel politically would be the biggest way to help Palestinians. And that requires change from the top.
Plus, it’s just insane another sovereign nation gets that much unconditional support from our politicians, while we don’t even have universal health care lol.
It doesn’t affect both candidates equally. Trumoncourts the vindictive and racist vote. They don’t have a problem with genocide.
They are not saying I won’t vote for trump. They are saying o will not vote for Biden. Biden is losing support over the issue. Trump is not.
When you provide misinformation and false equivalence, you undermine your argument, similar to an agitator.
Biden is not a good candidate, nor was he in 2020. He’s objectively worse now, bit so is Trump, his competition. The time to protest was during primaries and find a different candidate. Some did. It didn’t work unfortunately. Now he should get full voter support. Anyone who claims to care about genocide should care about human rights in general.
Boycotting a vote to allow an objectively worse candidate in is, just like Biden, tacit acceptance for crimes they themselves did not commit. If you hold Biden responsible for the actions of Israel, then by the same logic, those who choose not to vote Biden can and should be held responsible for Trunks actions.
my satan. if every decent person only voted for canidates where they agreed with all their stances and actions then only non decent persons would vote. I really feel like folks don’t understand democracy. Its about compromise its impossible to have a democracy that runs exactly as one would want things to go. The only way to get that is if the one is a dictator.
And a lot of people don’t want to compromise on genocide. I think that’s pretty understandable.
Myself included. Im not going to let the guy whos party complain the current guy is not doing enough for israel and who did that assasination on the iranians and recognized jerusalem as the capital of israel to win.
Ya definitely don’t want Trump to win either. Ideally Biden ends up deciding Israel isn’t worth losing an election over, stops supporting them, and then crushes Trump with the same or more youth votes he got in 2020. Probably with the help of weed legislation, too, but not sure if the young people care about that as much as they used to when I was in the “youth” lol.
ideally republicans can’t win elections anymore and disappear and then its safe for democrats to fission into a more conservative and liberal leaning parties and the incentive to win is to be more left/liberal than the current incentive to be more right.
This assumes that Biden voters want to compromise on genocide. We don’t. We hate it. But life isn’t a storybook. The guy going against the pure evil isn’t a paragon of justice. But that doesn’t mean you give up fighting against pure evil. You prioritize so that you can achieve what is currently achievable, and wait for more to become achievable.
And a lot of people are divisively using a genocide to try and shrink the vote for one candidate when both support it. As the commenter above said, the horrible people won’t care. We all k ow a third party vote is an abstention.
So the choice is vote for the boring candidate that does good things but supports genocide. Or vote for the crazy vindictive candidate that does terrible things and supports genocide and nuking hurricanes.
Or they’re trying to pressure the acting President to change an immoral policy with the threat of lost votes so that he obeys his constituency like he’s in a democracy. He’s got plenty of time to change course and it’s already caused him to make some small measures, like changing his rhetoric and pausing a weapon shipment once.
The term cutting off your nose to spite your face would be appropriate.
I completely agree with pressuring the candidate. However, threatening to lose votes when the opposition might win and do worse damage is a strange kind of brinkmanship that is illogical and doesn’t seem to be working.
I have yet to hear from anyone doing anything co Crete to help the situation who thinks helping trump get elected is good. So, it rings hollow to me. Unfortunately, the ballot box is the most powerful tool at a voters disposal. In this day and age, with money being speech, its not the only option though.
It’s better than doing nothing when tens of thousands of people are dying and a genocide is happening. Unless people are rich, the ballot and protests are all people have, and they’re trying to make protests illegal. I don’t think Palestinians and their friends or families would agree it’s illogical when people demand to do everything to save them, and the idea of solidarity is that you’d want them to do the same for you when they start targeting your group for a genocide. That’s the whole idea of “Never again.” Or like Captain America’s line, “We don’t trade lives.” Of course Trump is bad, but on the other hand, if Biden is actually a good candidate, he’ll shift with popular opinion to keep his job. We shouldn’t have to choose between Hitler and Pol Pot, and if we’re forced to, people shouldn’t be surprised if voter turnout is depressed a bit.
A quick note about how this one is different from other massacres, because that’s usually the next point (why do people care about this situation?) : Unfortunately, we can’t do anything about most of the tragedies and genocides in the world, like the Rohinga or Uyghur, but the thing about this process is that 1) it’s old-style settler colonialism process in the modern day and 2) it’s directly enabled by the US and other imperialist countries, the place where a lot of these commenters live, so they can do something about it by pressuring their leaders and politicians, and starting popular movements to do the same.
Biden is currently in power. Protests should rightly target him. But isn’t it odd that the vote protest doesn’t target Trump?
And again, there are lots of things that can be done beyond votes to help Palestinians. Money and donations are just one thing.
Palestine has been a disaster for years, with a slow burn genocide. Most people and most countries ignored it. So, while o think its good that people care now, many are using it as an excuse to torment distrust rather than genuine concern.
Withholding votes from a note resonavke candidate to increase cha ces for an ectrmeist deranged candidate is .ore likely to lead to more suffering and more genocides. So the action doesn’t match the stated intent.
Well, it does target Trump, too. None of these people say they are going to vote for Trump, either. So by the same logic, they are helping Biden win, too.
Besides, it makes perfect sense you hear Biden’s name more than Trump’s. It’s not as much of a threat, because there’s nothing Trump can do right now to get those votes, because he has no power. Pressuring him wouldn’t help Palestinians right now, before the genocide and ethnic cleansing is complete. With Biden it would. Plus, Trump is clearly trying to get the Zionist vote, leaving no one to get the non-Zionist votes. Biden has the most potential to be that candidate if he is as push-able to the left as people told me was he during the 2020 election. And he has been surprisingly malleable in some matters, so I think it’s possible. They just have to believe those votes can be lost, instead of going towards the Democratic Party because they have nowhere else to go and thus they deserve to get them even without doing anything for those constituents.
They’re not causing distrust, they’re pushing for change. I think the problem is the people on the other side. If everyone hand wringing worried about Biden’s chances vs Trump instead pressured Biden, too, instead of trying to do some moral arithmetic in their head, I guarantee Biden would feel forced to change tactics and go harder on Israel, and we could get actual help for those poor people faster. Then we could all vote for Biden without feeling bad about it.
The single biggest thing Israel has going for it is their support from the US, including their veto in the security council, help with weapons and money, the iron dome, shared technology, they’re trying to make bills making it illegal to criticize Israel or protest universities against our First Amendment, they’re warring in Yemen for this cause, and now they’re trying to interfere in the ICC case and investigation process, too. So while I do agree there are other ways to help, such as the BDS movement, spreading the word of Israel’s history, there are streamers who have volunteered to help refugees and stuff, I still think that getting the US to stop supporting Israel politically would be the biggest way to help Palestinians. And that requires change from the top.
Plus, it’s just insane another sovereign nation gets that much unconditional support from our politicians, while we don’t even have universal health care lol.
It doesn’t affect both candidates equally. Trumoncourts the vindictive and racist vote. They don’t have a problem with genocide.
They are not saying I won’t vote for trump. They are saying o will not vote for Biden. Biden is losing support over the issue. Trump is not.
When you provide misinformation and false equivalence, you undermine your argument, similar to an agitator.
Biden is not a good candidate, nor was he in 2020. He’s objectively worse now, bit so is Trump, his competition. The time to protest was during primaries and find a different candidate. Some did. It didn’t work unfortunately. Now he should get full voter support. Anyone who claims to care about genocide should care about human rights in general.
Boycotting a vote to allow an objectively worse candidate in is, just like Biden, tacit acceptance for crimes they themselves did not commit. If you hold Biden responsible for the actions of Israel, then by the same logic, those who choose not to vote Biden can and should be held responsible for Trunks actions.