I agree with everything you’re saying except that carbon taxes, at least in Canada, do not seem to really have worked. Since we have no genuinely reliable public transportation infrastructure, we all still drive. And we pay the carbon tax just like we pay excise taxes on it, and provincial taxes, and federal taxes (and, ironically, transportation taxes). It’s why our gasoline in Vancouver is $2.10 per litre. Albeit, lower than Europe, but higher than America. Yet it hasn’t changed the fact we drive ICE cars.
The wealthier people have started driving Teslas. I would say there are times you’re driving and one-third are Teslas, but it’s really region-dependent. Outside Vancouver they’re all ICE, and not just cars but raised pickups.
Carbon taxes are getting the ball rolling which is the main point. We’re just seeing short term effects at the moment, its literally only been 4 years, so you can’t really yet say it didn’t work because it takes place on a larger time scale than just a couple years. Economically the policy makes a lot of sense.
It goes like this: Corporations have a fiduciary duty to their share holders, they legally have to make profit for the people who hold ownership shares.
If something eats into their profit, they might raise prices in the short term, but in the long term, companies which innovate and can do similar processes without releasing as much carbon will be taxed less, and they will be able to offer services for lower than their competitors.
People see the lower prices and will try to go for the more cost effective service,
And so the competitors selling for lower prices take market demand away from companies who refuse to innovate, leading to less profits for them, forcing the company charging higher prices, to adopt the new cost-effective method or go out of business.
High-prices are the short-term effects of the market-paradigm. Innovation really only comes if there is a need. Why would a company try expensive new ‘non-polluting’ methods, if the methods that pollutes will make them more money?
You just can’t expect companies to make investments to change if they have no financial reason too.
However if the older carbon producing methods become more expensive (like through a carbon tax) then companies are more likely to invest in the newer processes, often driving the newer way to become cheaper due to economy of scales effects.
Also btw regular people at least get money back through tax credits to help offset costs.
Sure things are more expensive atm, but long term if our current economic system is to do what its ‘advertised’ to do, then we should allow the policy time. Entire supplychain changes don’t just happen in 4 years.
So yea maybe Carbon Tax isnt enough to affect quick change, maybe we need more serious policies aswell, but it’s a direction and a start.
We can’t really claim yet it hasn’t worked.
Since we have no genuinely reliable public transportation infrastructure, we all still drive. And we pay the carbon tax
A carbon tax is designed to be placed on the sources of oil and then ramped up over time. If you haven’t felt the carbon tax it’s because the tax isn’t high enough yet.
The only problem with the carbon tax is that it’s going to be difficult to get people to support it. Otherwise it’s the single most effective way to actually produce change across the whole economy.
I have felt the carbon tax, it’s just that it doesn’t really matter how high it is because there aren’t transportation alternatives. At a certain point I guess I’d have to give up my car, which would make travel for recreation difficult, especially in British Columbia
it’s just kind of makes me wonder what the point of living in, say, British Columbia would be. The only thing we have is outdoor recreation. We work to try and enjoy the landscape and beauty. but if we don’t have transportation to get to these places I may as well live in London, UK, where at least I’ll enjoy culture and good transit.
What the hell are you even talking about? I literally lived in rural BC where lots of people would go to enjoy outdoor recreation. I did just fine with a non-Tesla EV, and I was not the only one. The chargers in town got lots of use.
but if we don’t have transportation to get to these places I may as well live in London
Yes. These decisions are exactly what a carbon tax is designed to create. The people who really want to live a recreational non-urban lifestyle that is quite expensive in terms of carbon emissions are going to have to pay more to do it because that reflects the true cost of that lifestyle.
Ideally That extra expense encourages innovation in that space so that the area can become less carbon intense. Perhaps local authorities are encouraged to build trains or electric cars or some other system that lets you live your life without emitting carbon in those areas.
I agree with everything you’re saying except that carbon taxes, at least in Canada, do not seem to really have worked. Since we have no genuinely reliable public transportation infrastructure, we all still drive. And we pay the carbon tax just like we pay excise taxes on it, and provincial taxes, and federal taxes (and, ironically, transportation taxes). It’s why our gasoline in Vancouver is $2.10 per litre. Albeit, lower than Europe, but higher than America. Yet it hasn’t changed the fact we drive ICE cars.
The wealthier people have started driving Teslas. I would say there are times you’re driving and one-third are Teslas, but it’s really region-dependent. Outside Vancouver they’re all ICE, and not just cars but raised pickups.
Carbon taxes are getting the ball rolling which is the main point. We’re just seeing short term effects at the moment, its literally only been 4 years, so you can’t really yet say it didn’t work because it takes place on a larger time scale than just a couple years. Economically the policy makes a lot of sense.
It goes like this: Corporations have a fiduciary duty to their share holders, they legally have to make profit for the people who hold ownership shares. If something eats into their profit, they might raise prices in the short term, but in the long term, companies which innovate and can do similar processes without releasing as much carbon will be taxed less, and they will be able to offer services for lower than their competitors.
People see the lower prices and will try to go for the more cost effective service, And so the competitors selling for lower prices take market demand away from companies who refuse to innovate, leading to less profits for them, forcing the company charging higher prices, to adopt the new cost-effective method or go out of business.
High-prices are the short-term effects of the market-paradigm. Innovation really only comes if there is a need. Why would a company try expensive new ‘non-polluting’ methods, if the methods that pollutes will make them more money? You just can’t expect companies to make investments to change if they have no financial reason too. However if the older carbon producing methods become more expensive (like through a carbon tax) then companies are more likely to invest in the newer processes, often driving the newer way to become cheaper due to economy of scales effects.
Also btw regular people at least get money back through tax credits to help offset costs. Sure things are more expensive atm, but long term if our current economic system is to do what its ‘advertised’ to do, then we should allow the policy time. Entire supplychain changes don’t just happen in 4 years.
So yea maybe Carbon Tax isnt enough to affect quick change, maybe we need more serious policies aswell, but it’s a direction and a start. We can’t really claim yet it hasn’t worked.
A carbon tax is designed to be placed on the sources of oil and then ramped up over time. If you haven’t felt the carbon tax it’s because the tax isn’t high enough yet.
The only problem with the carbon tax is that it’s going to be difficult to get people to support it. Otherwise it’s the single most effective way to actually produce change across the whole economy.
I have felt the carbon tax, it’s just that it doesn’t really matter how high it is because there aren’t transportation alternatives. At a certain point I guess I’d have to give up my car, which would make travel for recreation difficult, especially in British Columbia
Yes. Ideally it would result in forms of recreation and travel that emit less.
it’s just kind of makes me wonder what the point of living in, say, British Columbia would be. The only thing we have is outdoor recreation. We work to try and enjoy the landscape and beauty. but if we don’t have transportation to get to these places I may as well live in London, UK, where at least I’ll enjoy culture and good transit.
What the hell are you even talking about? I literally lived in rural BC where lots of people would go to enjoy outdoor recreation. I did just fine with a non-Tesla EV, and I was not the only one. The chargers in town got lots of use.
Yes. These decisions are exactly what a carbon tax is designed to create. The people who really want to live a recreational non-urban lifestyle that is quite expensive in terms of carbon emissions are going to have to pay more to do it because that reflects the true cost of that lifestyle.
Ideally That extra expense encourages innovation in that space so that the area can become less carbon intense. Perhaps local authorities are encouraged to build trains or electric cars or some other system that lets you live your life without emitting carbon in those areas.
There’s plenty of EVs with 300+ miles of range now. Shouldn’t be an issue.
Them EVs cost slightly more than my $16,000 Nissan Micra
The carbon tax is supposed to (partially) go towards credits for EVs