Apple's lawyers argued that an angry customer "omits details" about a so-called "walk" where condensation built up in his AirPods Max, and that moisture in the company's flagship headphones is simply "more noticeable" than in competitors' models.
That’s insane. I have the same Bose over-the-ear (I can’t stand in-ear) headphones for years. They have been to the gym with me, jogging, and just existing in a humid, Tokyo summer for the last 5.5 years and have zero electronic issues. I did replace the exterior cushiony bit twice now, but the actual electronics are fine.
I’ve had some Bose Quiet Comfort (I think maybe it was the very first model, but might be the 2nd) for over a decade, with tons of use (for a while I did software development in the middle of a Trading Floor, think highly intellectual focus requiring work in the middle of a fishmonger’s market) and had to use those things all the time.
They’re all scratched on the outside by now (from going in and out of a backpack) and the ear cups were replaced twice.
Similar experiences with my Quiet Comforts II. I’m not using the shell it comes with, so it’s buffed a little, and had to replace the earcaps twice just because they get worn down in my backpack, but they work absolutely perfect.
Sure, the battery life isn’t as great as it was when I bought them in 2017 but for single-day usage they’re fine and I just give it a small micro-usb-powered pep-talk every night to use them the next day.
From your comment I think mine might be the QC 1, as mine just use normal AAA batteries and the battery life of mine can be “refreshed” by buying new rechargeable batteries ;)
Do they block outside sound though? AirPods do and the trouble with that is you’re also trapping air in with your ears.
And the air being trapped close to your skin will inevitably be a different temperature to the air on the other side of the material. The temperature gradient creates condensation. It’s inevitable.
Assuming you want good sound isolation* the solution isn’t to avoid condensation, it’s to design it so the condensation forms somewhere that it doesn’t matter.
(* AirPods sound isolation is so good they have a microphone on the outside which, if it detects a fire/eathquake/etc evacuation siren, will replay that sound with the headphone speaker)
Airpods have good ANC, but they’re not magically better than things on the market. My 3 year old Sennheiser Momentum TW2s have better ANC, and cost $250 less.
I have a special interest in ANC over ear headphones for work and travel and do buy nearly every serious contender as soon as it becomes available (I have or had the BOSE QC35, QC35 II, 700, QC45, the SONY WH-1000XM3, XM4, and the AirPods Max. I‘ve yet to buy the XM5s). The AirPods ANC is far beyond the competition especially if it’s cancelling noises other than continuous rumbling like noise spikes, human voices and such. All of them are good or great at blocking background noises (even the original QC35 is still capable enough there), but the AirPods Max are far superior in unpredictable environments. This isn’t some magic BOSE or SONY are incapable of, this is just economics: Apple charges more than double the competition‘s prices, has special access to chips and isn’t just a scammy luxury company without serious RnD, but also has the resources and knowledge to develop outstanding software. This isn’t a judgement on the other factors though: the Max are heavy, their sound is borderline “Beatsy” (no surprise there, since they are probably related), they have nearly no external media control, the bag they come in and the way they are stowed makes them really unwieldy - and first thing you need to do if you receive them is tape over the little “SIM ejector”-like holes under their cushions as the article describes. Their superior ANC comes with a lot of costs attached.
Anti-Apple circlejerk is strong in this thread but you’re absolutely right. I’ve been a Bose and, when those were stolen during a trip, Sony headphone user for years specifically for noise cancelling as I travel and have to work and take meetings in a number of incredibly noisy environments.
I bought a pair of the AirPod Max headphones as I was travelling with a colleague using Apple and there’s a feature to connect two pairs of headphones to the same device and it made sense to use that. My intention was to sell them after the trip as I know loads of Apple fans who’d jump at a small discount lol.
The noise cancelling isn’t as powerful for rumbling as the Bose, and the Sony’s have punchier bass, but, as you said, in unpredictable noise environments (city rooftops, cafes, open plan offices, conference halls, expo floors, Indian public transport, etc) they were unreal. I’ve since kept them purely for the noise cancelling.
The pricetag is steep, arguably too steep (a €100 premium on Bose would be more realistic), but given how much I use headphones like these (must have around 1000h+ of use on the AirPod Max pair already), the build quality is certainly holding up better than the Sonys which creak like mad and I need to regularly relubricate the cup joint or the Bose which the headband cracked and drivers started producing popping noises around 1000h into using them (part of why I switched to Sony instead of replacing).
I’m sure for those who sit in an office or fly regularly, the AirPod Maxes are a total waste of money but if, like me, you’re not just trying to cancel general rumble or background chatter but a wide array of totally unpredictable noises (like a tshirt cannon lol) the steep price can be totally justifiable.
Closed-back headphones and ANC are nothing new, and the Bose QC line (which I assume is what the previous commentator has), are indeed closed-back ANC headphones.
I found your attempts to explain somewhat condscending, and also feel like it’s treating the Airpods like they’re some revolutionary product, which they’re not. Feel free to correct me if that was not your itention.
They have noise cancellation that works well enough for me (they have more advanced newer versions, but I see no reason to upgrade now). When I first tried my friend’s before buying, I complained he ruined the world for me because I never knew how much background could be cut out, heh.
Yeah, the condensation is inevitable and does need to go somewhere. I don’t know where it goes with mine, but the headphones keep on working.
I’ve used Bose Quite Comfort (the I or the II, not sure anymore) in the trading floor of an Investment Bank (think fishmonger’s market but with financial assets) back in the late 00s to be able to do software development (which requires focus and concentration to do efficiently).
They most definitly block outside noise (still do, in fact, over a decade and 2 earcup replacements later).
Still work fine. Somehow the “condensation” “problem” was already solved a decade and a half ago.
Oh and even though noise-cancelling tech in headphones was near-bleeding edge back then, which is not at all now, they cost roughly half as much as these airpods which fail “due to condensation” (though inflation adjusted and using the higher GDPUSD cross-exchange rate from back then, it’s maybe only 2/3 as much)
That’s insane. I have the same Bose over-the-ear (I can’t stand in-ear) headphones for years. They have been to the gym with me, jogging, and just existing in a humid, Tokyo summer for the last 5.5 years and have zero electronic issues. I did replace the exterior cushiony bit twice now, but the actual electronics are fine.
I’ve had some Bose Quiet Comfort (I think maybe it was the very first model, but might be the 2nd) for over a decade, with tons of use (for a while I did software development in the middle of a Trading Floor, think highly intellectual focus requiring work in the middle of a fishmonger’s market) and had to use those things all the time.
They’re all scratched on the outside by now (from going in and out of a backpack) and the ear cups were replaced twice.
Still work fine.
Best £250 I ever spent.
Similar experiences with my Quiet Comforts II. I’m not using the shell it comes with, so it’s buffed a little, and had to replace the earcaps twice just because they get worn down in my backpack, but they work absolutely perfect.
Sure, the battery life isn’t as great as it was when I bought them in 2017 but for single-day usage they’re fine and I just give it a small micro-usb-powered pep-talk every night to use them the next day.
From your comment I think mine might be the QC 1, as mine just use normal AAA batteries and the battery life of mine can be “refreshed” by buying new rechargeable batteries ;)
Do they block outside sound though? AirPods do and the trouble with that is you’re also trapping air in with your ears.
And the air being trapped close to your skin will inevitably be a different temperature to the air on the other side of the material. The temperature gradient creates condensation. It’s inevitable.
Assuming you want good sound isolation* the solution isn’t to avoid condensation, it’s to design it so the condensation forms somewhere that it doesn’t matter.
(* AirPods sound isolation is so good they have a microphone on the outside which, if it detects a fire/eathquake/etc evacuation siren, will replay that sound with the headphone speaker)
Airpods have good ANC, but they’re not magically better than things on the market. My 3 year old Sennheiser Momentum TW2s have better ANC, and cost $250 less.
I have a special interest in ANC over ear headphones for work and travel and do buy nearly every serious contender as soon as it becomes available (I have or had the BOSE QC35, QC35 II, 700, QC45, the SONY WH-1000XM3, XM4, and the AirPods Max. I‘ve yet to buy the XM5s). The AirPods ANC is far beyond the competition especially if it’s cancelling noises other than continuous rumbling like noise spikes, human voices and such. All of them are good or great at blocking background noises (even the original QC35 is still capable enough there), but the AirPods Max are far superior in unpredictable environments. This isn’t some magic BOSE or SONY are incapable of, this is just economics: Apple charges more than double the competition‘s prices, has special access to chips and isn’t just a scammy luxury company without serious RnD, but also has the resources and knowledge to develop outstanding software. This isn’t a judgement on the other factors though: the Max are heavy, their sound is borderline “Beatsy” (no surprise there, since they are probably related), they have nearly no external media control, the bag they come in and the way they are stowed makes them really unwieldy - and first thing you need to do if you receive them is tape over the little “SIM ejector”-like holes under their cushions as the article describes. Their superior ANC comes with a lot of costs attached.
Lol
Anti-Apple circlejerk is strong in this thread but you’re absolutely right. I’ve been a Bose and, when those were stolen during a trip, Sony headphone user for years specifically for noise cancelling as I travel and have to work and take meetings in a number of incredibly noisy environments.
I bought a pair of the AirPod Max headphones as I was travelling with a colleague using Apple and there’s a feature to connect two pairs of headphones to the same device and it made sense to use that. My intention was to sell them after the trip as I know loads of Apple fans who’d jump at a small discount lol.
The noise cancelling isn’t as powerful for rumbling as the Bose, and the Sony’s have punchier bass, but, as you said, in unpredictable noise environments (city rooftops, cafes, open plan offices, conference halls, expo floors, Indian public transport, etc) they were unreal. I’ve since kept them purely for the noise cancelling.
The pricetag is steep, arguably too steep (a €100 premium on Bose would be more realistic), but given how much I use headphones like these (must have around 1000h+ of use on the AirPod Max pair already), the build quality is certainly holding up better than the Sonys which creak like mad and I need to regularly relubricate the cup joint or the Bose which the headband cracked and drivers started producing popping noises around 1000h into using them (part of why I switched to Sony instead of replacing).
I’m sure for those who sit in an office or fly regularly, the AirPod Maxes are a total waste of money but if, like me, you’re not just trying to cancel general rumble or background chatter but a wide array of totally unpredictable noises (like a tshirt cannon lol) the steep price can be totally justifiable.
deleted by creator
Closed-back headphones and ANC are nothing new, and the Bose QC line (which I assume is what the previous commentator has), are indeed closed-back ANC headphones.
I found your attempts to explain somewhat condscending, and also feel like it’s treating the Airpods like they’re some revolutionary product, which they’re not. Feel free to correct me if that was not your itention.
They have noise cancellation that works well enough for me (they have more advanced newer versions, but I see no reason to upgrade now). When I first tried my friend’s before buying, I complained he ruined the world for me because I never knew how much background could be cut out, heh.
Yeah, the condensation is inevitable and does need to go somewhere. I don’t know where it goes with mine, but the headphones keep on working.
I’ve used Bose Quite Comfort (the I or the II, not sure anymore) in the trading floor of an Investment Bank (think fishmonger’s market but with financial assets) back in the late 00s to be able to do software development (which requires focus and concentration to do efficiently).
They most definitly block outside noise (still do, in fact, over a decade and 2 earcup replacements later).
Still work fine. Somehow the “condensation” “problem” was already solved a decade and a half ago.
Oh and even though noise-cancelling tech in headphones was near-bleeding edge back then, which is not at all now, they cost roughly half as much as these airpods which fail “due to condensation” (though inflation adjusted and using the higher GDPUSD cross-exchange rate from back then, it’s maybe only 2/3 as much)
Bose pretty much wrote the book on noise cancelation. They introduced the first commercially available noise cancelling aviation headphones in 1989.