• schnaggle@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    80
    arrow-down
    32
    ·
    11 months ago

    Calling the Israel govt “genocidal” is not fair or accurate. Israel has had military superiority over Gaza every day since it was captured in 1967. If they were genocidal, they could’ve slaughtered all the people in Gaza at any time. Instead, the population of Gaza has doubled since 1967. If you want to know what a real genocidal regime looks like, imagine the situation were reversed and Hamas had overwhelming military superiority over Israel. Imagine Hamas had tanks, F-16s, F-35s, and Apache helicopters. What would happen? The genocide would start immediately. Hamas would be slaughtering civilians en masse. No restraint. No negotiations. True Genocide.

    Before you ask, I’m not Jewish and I’m not defending Israeli atrocities. I just think this is an extremely simplistic and unfair characterization of Israel.

    • yata@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      36
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      Genocide isn’t about just slaughtering people, it is also about removing and displacing a people from a region, something which Israel policy definitely and inarguably has systematically been.

    • SlikPikker@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      11 months ago

      The language lacks a nuance in between “intentional mass slaughter” and “systematic eradication and displacement of ethnic group.”

      Both are classed as genocide by international conventions, even if in our heads they seem very different.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        11 months ago

        I think that’s why often genocide is used for the former and ethnic cleansing for the latter, which makes some form of sense since, as you said, there appears to be a difference.

        I’m not trying to lessen the evil of what either is because I don’t believe in ‘which is more evil’ contests, just that, for categorization purposes, maybe that is needed.

    • SankaraStone@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      If a bunch of refugees flee roaming Jewish folk running around trying to murder them (like Muslims fled India and Hindus fled Pakistan during Partition as folks of each religion roamed around trying to murder people of the minority faith) in 1948 and refugees flee the 1967 war, fearing for their safety, and then they’re not allowed to return to their homes, that’s ethnic cleansing. If you’re constantly being pushed off your land and your home in order to be replaced by settlers of another faith, that’s also ethnic cleansing.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Palestinian_exodus

      • SankaraStone@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        11 months ago

        P.S. Fuck the British (of that time) and their fucking imperialism.

        And fuck the Hindus and Muslims and Jews who participated in the ethnic cleansing.

    • kaffiene@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      11 months ago

      UN convention on Genocide: “Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people[a] in whole or in part.” I think it’s reasonable to argue that applies to Istael’s treatment of Palestine.

    • Omniraptor@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      11 months ago

      Gee do you think the population may have doubled partially because of all the ethnic cleansing that the Israeli gov (or settlers with the gov’s implicit support) have done in places those people used to live?

        • kaffiene@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          You haven’t heard of the illegal Israeli settlements? You haven’t heard about the forced removal of Palestinian homes?