Speed limits dont work, road design determines how fast people go.
A section of the A24 was limited to 130 kmph for 20 years to reduce accidents. Because the reduction the speed limit was lifted early this year. Now there are 8% more accidents with injury and 42% more injured. Politicians call now to make it possible to limit the section again.
For highway lowering the speed may be effective but lowering the speed limit from 50 to 30 won’t stop drivers from going 50 unless the road is designed for lower speeds. So long as lanes are wide and there are little obstructions for drivers to worry about hitting, such as bumpouts, boulevards, etc., they will go as fast as they feel comfortable unless there is a cop behind them.
BTW: the mortality is around 50% if a car hits a pedestrian at 50km/h.
At 30km/h it’s around 3%.
So yeah, speed in centre ville counts!
Damn pedestrians killing drivers for driving quickly, won’t somebody do something?!
In Germany the speed limit in Cities is 50km/h and in residential zones 30km/h, strong controlled with a lot of radar traps. If you exceed this they screw up your life, in case of hitting a pedestrian even possible with jail time. It cannot be confused by the lack of speed limit on some highway sections, that traffic regulations are very strict and controlled in Germany and any violation can be very expensive.
I think that comment was meant as a joke because if a car hits a pedestrian, its obviously not the driver who gets injured…
Anyway, we do have speed radars in Germany but I have not seen one in a 30-zone and inside the city they are rather rare I’d say…
Well, respect radar control, it depends also in which city or village you are of the local administration, in some are existing only few and in others on every corner. Often also mobile radarstations in “civil” parking police cars.
it looks like it’s designed for pretty extreme speeds
Unlike the average driver.
It’s not actually. It’s quite an old network so it was built before cars could go as fast as they can go now. There are surprisingly sharp corners and very short off ramps. If it were built from scratch today it would be even safer. Speed limits are bs outside of particularly tricky areas.
Is the image from the article not of the highway in question?
Ah yep my bad, I was speaking generally. The image in the article is only a short section of highway but it does look like one of the 2 lane sections that are usually quite old. If they were more modern and built for higher speeds they’d have an even shallower curve and would probably be 3 lanes with a hard shoulder. If you drive on the Autobahn you’ll have a few moments where you notice the difference in road layout from those which more modern highways implement - the on and off ramps in particular can be a bit scary.
High gasoline prices also influence the average speed on the highways. The vast majority of people do not usually go faster than 120, many even less.
Idk, I’m seeing plenty of people here for whom gasoline is evidently not expensive enough yet
That is the problem, people with high end cars have enough money to pay an expensive fuel. Apart with an industry which mostly expensive high end E-cars, the high fuel prices only affect the people wich don’t have money for such cars.
Well the funny part is that it’s not even people in high-end cars that I’m seeing
I was referring to those who go 300 on the highway, difficult for those with an old Ford Fiesta.
Speed limits absolutely do work if there are cameras and consequences. Unfortunately everyone seems to have decided that suspending licences and siezing cars is a human rights violation.
Speed limits do work, but the road should be designed with the speed limit in mind. Just slapping a new sign up and reducing the speed limit is going to lead to non-compliance - even if the speed limit is enforced by police.
The UK recently released figures on speed limit compliance. For 20mph roads (30-35kph) they primarily measured roads that didn’t have traffic calming measures recommended for 20mph roads (ie the roads don’t “feel” like 20mph roads), and they found 85% of drivers exceeded the speed limit.
The Autobahn has become very tiring to drive on. Most people somehow decided that its easiest to drive in the middle lane at slow(ish) speeds, while the right lane stays empty for long stretches. Since you are not allowed to overtake on the right lane, both the left lane and the middle lane are clogged most of the time, averaging about 100-120 Km/h. If the public transportation was a bit more reliable and cheaper I would sell my car.
The problem is that even in low traffic, there is a truck on the right lane every few meters. Often, after you switch to the right lane, someone decides to drive right next to you, forcing you to brake.
It’s just more comfortable to stay in the middle lane.Now IMHO the real problem is when trucks are overtaking with 101km/h…
10 seconds. If you’re not overtaking anything within 10 seconds, you should pull into the inside lane.
This is what I was taught in advanced driver training. However, in practice I use 7 seconds, because I find 10 seconds a little too far to easily estimate by eye. I end up thinking “is that 10 seconds? I’m not sure, maybe” then by the time I figure out it was more than 10 seconds it is now less than 7.
trucks are overtaking with 101km/h
As trucks are governed to a Vmax of 90 kph, and some even to 85 kph, I would suggest you get your speedometer checked, because it sounds like the advancement, required by law, is too high. It shouldn’t show more than 7% more than your actual speed. Truck speedos are more rigorously controlled and show an average of 2 kph too much at 80 kph, so trucks overtaking at 101 kph is not normally possible - of course, speedo manipulation does occur, but it isn’t so rampant that they all overtake at 101 kph.
Okay, I never looked at a truck’s speedometer. The point is they are overtaking just slightly faster.
It certainly feels like most trucks are going at least 90 km/h regularly.
Truck driver have timelines. It is totally okay, if they need to occupy the middle lane. Sometimes even the left lane. It is more rare then middle lane sitters.
But what is not okay is that the cultural habit of “don’t clog” has forgotten. People are ignorant shits these days when entering cars.
If you decide to travel via 100 kph and do not want to flow with the traffic, then just stick to the right lane and flow with the trucks?! This way you have the most fuel savings as well.
It is totally okay, if they need to occupy the middle lane.
Truck drivers are running a commercial operation, I shouldn’t have to be inconvenienced so they can more easily make money - especially not when that inconvenience is caused by them not following the rules of the road.
Sometimes even the left lane.
This may be illegal, depending on jurisdiction and circumstances.
Truck drivers are running a commercial operation, I shouldn’t have to be inconvenienced so they can more easily make money - especially not when that inconvenience is caused by them not following the rules of the road.
It is about the person sitting inside the ferry. Once you work together with drivers you will change your attitude torwards them immediately. They working conditions are very difficult. Especially when they are crossing jurisdications/states.
When I am driving I have no problems eith truck drivers. They even help going onto the highway or mention radars.
The people sitting in the middle are the problem. Most of them doesn’t even accelerate passing another middle-lane-sitter.
Im driving for two decades. I did multiple years of disposition. I’m telling you: Middle sitters are the problem and responsible for most crashes on the autobahn.
It is about the person sitting inside the ferry. Once you work together with drivers you will change your attitude torwards them immediately. They working conditions are very difficult. Especially when they are crossing jurisdications/states.
This is the classic “feel sorry for the waiter working on sub-minimum wage, he’s supposed to be subsidised by tips!” bullshit argument. Yes, truck drivers are a victim of the businesses they work for and aren’t paid well enough. That doesn’t mean that they, as representatives of the business they work for, should get away with doing things that are wrong and inconvenience everyone else. Particularly when it is the business that sets the conditions that push drivers to behave as they do.
The truck driver might not be making much of a profit, for the long hours they work. But the truck is there to make a profit. The majority of everyone else on the road is not driving for work. People driving for work should not inhibit everyone else, who are inherently paying a loss to drive somewhere.
In fact, drivers in general shouldn’t inhibit others. Driving in the outside lane when you’re not overtaking is a shitty move, regardless.
Pay attention, plan well ahead to pull out when you need, accelerate as needed so you don’t hold up anyone when you pull out.
If you’re not willing or able to accelerate, then you shouldn’t pull out. By all means indicate your intention (and do so well in advance), but don’t move over until the lane is clear.
When I am driving I have no problems eith truck drivers. They even help going onto the highway or mention radars.
The people sitting in the middle are the problem.
Yeah, but we’re talking about truck drivers who sit in the middle lane.
It sounds like you’re from somewhere where this isn’t much of a problem. The professional drivers are professional. That’s awesome, but know that it doesn’t hold true everywhere, either across the US or in Europe or elsewhere. It’s not even a national thing, driving habits vary by region.
But yeah, people sitting in the middle is a problem. The bigger problem is that it’s so poorly defined - I was taught “if you’re not overtaking within 10 seconds, you should pull over”. 10 seconds is very conservative, I work to 7 seconds.
Most people somehow decided that its easiest to drive in the middle lane at slow(ish) speeds, while the right lane stays empty for long stretches.
Really? In my experience driving on German roads (primarily down near Munich), lane discipline is exceptionally good. The only times I saw significantly lower driving standards was in rush hour.
Meanwhile, the UK is notorious for people sitting in the middle lane. That used to be the rule, the inside lane was the slow lane, middle for cruising and outside for overtaking, however that was changed in the 60s/70s. It’s recently been made formally illegal, rather than just contrary to the highway code, but even trained police drivers are still guilty of doing it.
In the Netherlands they’re very big on pulling back in. So much so they frequently cut your nose off by pulling in so early.
It’s fun seeing how driving styles vary between different regions and countries.
Yeah, that might be the case. I recently drove to Berchtesgaden and it was better in the south. I live near the Danish border. Haha, people here are a bit laid back.
I dont experience that in the part of Germany where I live but either way, have you seen how they drive in other countries? Thats wild compared to Germany…
Driving on occassion on the A8 near Stuttgart and can’t confirm it.
Usually trucks are clogging the most right line and overtaking each on the 2nd lane.
Most PKWs drive on the 2nd/3rd lane while the racers and overtakers use the 3rd/4th lane.
Also who cares about overtaking from the right. If you drive 120kph and my lane all drive 130 kph I will naturally overtake you. No need to switch lanes if the lane is free. Just don’t overtake at +30 kph but more at 10 kph in relation to base Autobahn speed.Just don’t overtake at +30 kph but more at 10 kph
The law does account for this: If all lanes are well populated and you find your lane is actually moving faster than the lane to your left, you may pass - not overtake - on the right, as long as you are not more than 20 kph faster than the left lane.
The difference is in passing and overtaking: Passing is merely going faster than the other lane, but staying in your lane afterwards. Overtaking, or to give it its correct name of undertaking, is passing and then changing into the same lane as the passed vehicle.
Yeah, that’s what I meant.
Thanks for clarifying!
Pkw - Panzerkampfwagen?
PersonenKraftWagen
PersonalPowerVehicle
PersonalCar
CarIt’s a reference to this: https://reddit.com/r/de/s/rN0qIhSanO
I actually didn’t even know this existed prior to this comment, just saw the funny acronym (: thanks for that hilarious
Neat post
Thanks for the lore
I prefer tanki (;
Stupid Leopards keep clogging up the highways
Yeah trucks across Europe are generally pretty good, primarily because in many countries it’s illegal for them to be in the 3rd lane (except sometimes in heavy slow moving traffic).
Overtaking from the right, or undertaking, is often illegal also, though. So while I agree that it should be ok, strictly speaking it isn’t.
What is legal is to overtake on the outside, move into their lane, then the inside lane, then slow down so they overtake you. Rinse and repeat, count how many donuts you can draw around them before they move over.
if there are speed limits i usually am forced to spend more time dicking around looking for signs or cops or checking the speedometer, instead of focusing on the road and how safe my current speed actually feels
I think traffic calming is really interesting for this reason, building roads to make you feel most comfortable at the correct speed. The road design here is usually good, but when driving I feel really anxious on roads that have a design not matching the speed limit too.
100% agreed. If I don’t set cruise control, I usually speed on my commute due to me just focusing on the grip of my car, distance to/from other cars, and perceived speed. It’s just hard to gauge speed without checking often on my speedometer, which isn’t as safe. Even just trying to follow at a constant distance in the right lane is difficult because the semi trucks usually end up having wide speed differences at random times, meaning 60mph-80mph depending on the hill usually.
If your mental capacity is reached by checking your surroundings while all the traffic is going roughly the same speed as you, then no way youre capable of handling “no speed limit” where everyone is driving to their liking.
It’s not just you who’d be suddenly free to do whatever they want, but everyone else too.
Claiming “I know better what’s best for me” is the best sign of someone who absolutely doesn’t.
I think you’re misunderstanding their message. To me it reads that places where there’s low speed limits, are also places where you need to pay a lot of attention on the street and surroundings and wouldn’t want to drive faster anyways
Fair, maybe that’s how it was meant. But “dicking around” makes me think otherwise.
This can be solved quite easily by introducing head-up-displays in cars showing the speed in front of the driver. HUDs were introduced years ago in some airliners allowing the pilots to maintain situational awareness while having quick access to the critical information about the aircraft. And introducing safety standards from commercial aviation is almost always a good step.
I’ve driven a car that kind of projected your speed onto the bottom of the wind shield. It’s really convenient, can recommend.
Speaking as an American here… could we NOT park cars in the left lane. I’ve seen enough habits of drivers in other countries where the left lane is exclusively for passing, it’s so simple and superior for traffic but Americans be dumb selfish shits behind the wheel.
Left is for passing. You may not overtake in right lane. At least that’s how it works in Sweden. Thus if left lane is slow, right is slower.
I like this in concept. The issue is that we often get asshats who want to go slow in the left lane.
When my options are to go 5 under the speed limit, or pass on the right, I’m passing on the right every time.
You don’t understand, I have to turn left in 25 km and what if I can’t get back into my lane after I let you pass and I miss my turn. I’m not a confident driver so I am going to do what’s safest and best for me and everyone else can just accept it. I’m going fast enough at 5km over the posted speed limit and you can just slow down, life isn’t a race unless I need it to be.
-The asshole I encounter daily on my commute.
turn left WHERE. ON A HIGHWAY?? WAAAAAAAAAAAA
They meant the left turn at the very end of the hifhway /s
In the US, generally you cannot pass in the right lane except when the left lane refuses to move over despite having ample room
In the US it varies depending on which state you’re in and which way the wind is blowing up the cop’s asshole.
Does this apply inside the city aswell? In Germany, this only applys outside the city…
Where i live it’s fucking madness. People change lanes randomly, sit in the far left going 10 under the limit, pass on the right or left at seeming random, and sometimes just drive in the middle lane doing 30 mph in a 70 mph zone with their fucking hazards on. Don’t even get me started on their merge technique, jealousy and resentment are what rule people’s decisions and nobody has ever even heard of zipper merging. It’s a shock there aren’t more accidents than there are.
I once watched someone sitting in the far left at the limit, come up against someone driving on the left going 10 under, decide to undertake, and then slow down to like 30 under to “punish” the person.
I’ve changed lanes to pass only to have people change in front of me to block me, then change back when i changed back.
But most of all, and it should be noted i drive a two seater sports car here, i’ve had people in their huge ass SUVs look over at me, MAKE EYE CONTACT with me, and then merge into whatever lane i was in at the time like they were trying to drive me off the road.
Fuck!
I’ve actually been pulled over for being in the left lane too long in the US, so it does happen, but not enough.
Did you get a ticket?
I think the real trouble is that it’s hard to convict on that. It’s not like speeding, where you either are or you aren’t, it’s much harder to establish that you shouldn’t be in the outside lane. I mean, it seems pretty clear in most cases, but the lack of a clearly defined boundary makes it very difficult in law. This ends up making it feel like a waste of time to law enforcement, both police and courts, because they could be doing things that will be more likely to have the intended outcome.
It’s really annoying though, because advanced driver courses sometimes do define it: 10 seconds.
If you’re not overtaking within 10 seconds, you should move over. Personally, I find it easier to estimate a 7 second distance by eye - 10 seconds is quite conservative.
No, they let me go with a warning, but while the one was talking to me, the other cop was peering in all my windows, so I’m pretty sure it was all an excuse to inspect people cars…
PARKING in the left lane? The hell? Isnt parking in any lane forbidden? Especially on a highway?
It’s a phrase some people use. Specifically prevalent in California. “Parking their Ass in the left lane” Means somebody driving in the left lane at 10mph below the speed limit.
On the other side, Germany has TÜV with a mandatory vehicle inspection every 2 years with some exceptions for new cars.
They check vital components for road safety and won’t allow the car to be on public roads when it’s not fixed within a month. And it’s not like your tires have no rest profile anymore, it’s like you have to change them when they’re at 1,6mm… recommended is to change at 4mms…
Some “Prüfer” are chill but sometimes you won’t pass because your winter tires you were drivimg for 5 years, are 0,3% bigger than the allowed ones in the registrationpapers… at least I heard.
we have this every year in slovenia. you have to pass a technical inspection then register your car
my mom’s car failed bexause her handbrake was 11% less efficient than new (limit being 10%). she had to get it replaced and then the car passed perfectly with 0 issues stated
i’d rather do this shit than have some jerk driving around with a car thats about to fall apart and maybe not have a working brake
MOT every year in the UK, similar stuff
I know, but sorry we’re miles apart from each other. I’ve seen “street legal” cars in UK which will get you in jail in Germany xD Tbh I don’t mind those restrictions but some are way over the top here
German here. We do have speed limits on highways. The portions without are often not that long so you rarely get a chance to go truly wild.
Regardless, the highest I usually go is like 180kmh and that doesn’t happen very often.
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Okay yes of course. I live in the south west. my primary autobahn is the A1 and holy fuck it’s always just a cluster fuck of Baustellen
Hey, we have strikt rules on a highway! For example if you’re driving slower than everybody else and your IQ is under 70 you are prohibited to drive on the right lane even if it’s empty.
Laughing in german…
We don’t have enough signs to make a speed limit happen - Volker Wissing, German minster of transit (Sadly not a joke: source)
Then, uh, get more?
Or just say: limit is 130 km/h and remove every sign saying 130 and higher. But that would all be too easy.
Was gonna say, before the Dutch did that stunt with time dependent speed limits the ‘unlimited’ sign just meant 130kph. At the border would be a sign explaining this and that’s that.
The FDP target group are above average people that enjoy fast expensive cars and that’s exactly what there politics are about. They are pretty much the only party pushing Porsches e-fuels in whole europe and keeping all incentives for the car lobby up and running.
That’s the dumbest excuse I’ve ever heard.
Don’t go faster than the speed of light (optional).
Meanwhile in the U.S. with ✌️ speed limits ✌️ everyone goes 10 over and the exceptions are 20-30mph over.
Yup, 10 over is my default unless I’m on a highway, which is then 15 to 20 over.
It’s funny, but those who actually go the speed limit are the ones that people get mad at for going too slow. Even though they’re technically the only ones obeying the law.
Biggest laugh I had in a long time I am crying omg
You’re welcome.
Fun fact: Germany is about average when it comes to road safety in Europe, which is still impressing since we’ve got the highest traffic density.
130 km/h is a slow sound barrier
From Texas. I’m actually kinda surprised to hear how slow people are driving there. Our perspective is largely that the Autobahn is generally people driving closer to 160km/h.
We have roads here that are limited to 136km/h. So it’s kinda surprising to find out that most Autobahn drivers aren’t breaking that speed.
You just drive at how fast feels safe to you. On an empty Autobahn (or on workdays where traffic is usually faster because people driving at that time are more experienced) they do go 150-200 km/h. (90mph - 125mph) But not in the middle lane on a Sunday afternoon…
I personally feel comfortable up until about 150km/h
I’ve heard that Texas has some of the highest speed limits in the US as well don’t you?
Our max is 85mph (~136kmph) in some areas. I think that’s the highest in the US.
tallinn, estonia: yellow stop what’s that
Anything above the speed limit is illegal.
And in Germany, in many places, that speed limit is not a limit. This is the sign for speed limits you see when you enter Germany. Notice that the “130” is inside a blue square, instead of a red ring. That means the 130 kph speed is only a recommendation.
Although in Germany there is no express speed limit on the highways, the lines where you can go 300 or more are quite limited and it is only feasible on certain days, since heavy traffic during the week prevents it anyway. On most highways there is a speed limit and it is usually 120 or 130, and these indications come in a red circle and often with radar control. But if not… https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=7BWE2ftcF4Q
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So it isn’t a limit. That’s great information to share but it does not nullify areas where the speed limit is indeed the speed limit
The Speedlimit on German Highways is only the one that is marked on traffic signs, if there are no signs, the limit is only what the car, traffic or common sense allows. It is also prohibited to go slower than 60 km/h on highways, if there is any reason for this, as it is also prohibited to go with vehicles that do not reach a minimum of 60 km/h. This, in view of the high speeds of others, is also logical.
On the other hand, in general German drivers are quite disciplined and the police are very attentive to violators, high fines and a point system (with 15 points you can ride a bicycle), where there is a speed limit it is sure that it is controlled by radar and at rush hour there are even helicopters controlling traffic, also with patrol cars with civilian or police cars, all of them high-end (BMW, AUDI, Porsche).
Those with 300 or more are mostly rich foreigners “Highway Tourists” who want to experience it with their supercars (Japanese, English, and others) because it is the only place where it is allowed.
