This is it, one of the downsides of a decentralized network like the fediverse here is that there is no current way to prevent brigading. It seems like this is mainly just one super MAGA dude ranting and a bunch of brigaders responding. I was going to give it some time and see if it mellowed out as it developed.
I don’t think there is any “brigading” going on here… Just to be clear what brigading actually is:
On reddit, there was a time when there were coordinated and organised efforts to “invade” another communities. For example, there were threads on 4Chan where users linked to subreddits or posts with the aim of having a bunch of users post similar stuff at the same time.
There was also brigading within reddit when one sub would make a post where they coordinate users to post specific comments in specific threads or post similar stuff in a specific subreddit.
As far as I can tell, that’s not what is happening here… There is no coordinated group effort here, it’s just that the vast majority of users on lemmy are not conservatives.
I’m actively removing offending posts and banning trolls. Bear with us, moderation tools are lacking, but I promise we’re working behind the scenes to keep discussion on topic.
Moderating can only go so far for brigading. Mass downvotes aren’t something moderators have control over. There’s also the risk of what reddit did where tons of subreddits proactively banned people simply for participating in other subreddits without ever posting in the banned subreddit.
The bottom line is that while reddit is super liberal, lemmy is openly hostile to anyone right of center and I don’t see any realistic solution to this. Welcome to the growing pains of a 15+ year old system going down and starting over from scratch.
I guess on Reddit conservative communities just have the critical mass needed to overcome the downvotes?
I suppose there being enough subreddits to distract people to the communities they’re interested keeps them from trolling/brigading/etc the communities they’re not.
I mean, completely unfederated instances kinda defeat the point. I get along just fine with real liberals and have plenty of views that bridge both. Limiting participation to a single isolated instance is basically pointless, especially as an actual replacement for reddit. Brigading and hostility to anyone that isn’t part of the circle jerk is just a disadvantage to the solution to admin/CEO-proofing lemmy as a whole.
Either way I’m not looking for isolated echo chambers with virtually no variety of content. Defederated instances defeat the entire point. I can get along just fine with people who I don’t agree with 100%, it would just be nice if others can do the same.
Like it or not brigading is what stops places from being echo chambers.
This is literally 100% false. Justify it however you want but your goal is to run anyone out that you disagree with so only your personal views are left. That isn’t stopping it from being an echo chamber.
I think the problem is that much of the “conservative” side is, well, divorced from reality. If you want to find a place in the fediverse that will simply let that slide, it’s not gonna happen. As long as you’ve got Trump leading the polls, his lackeys wasting time in the House on nonsense while ignoring criminals like Santos, other idiots banning books, a SCOTUS that’s the most blatantly corrupt, well, ever, etc. etc. etc. you’re going to have a bad time.
It’s almost as if, people living off big bro, begging for free money and debt forgiveness have plenty of free time to chat on the internet all day… Meanwhile, conservatives are out in the world trying to hold the damn thing together!
Regarding the matter at hand. I don’t agree that it’s right to ban people who have opposing views. Most of my comment history here is talking to the leftists about that exact thing. Because yes, this place, as new as it is, is already feeling like a lefty’s echo chamber…
Have you actually asked people how they make a living, or are you just assuming?
begging for free money and debt forgiveness
Why is it that it is ok for the airline industry, the banks, corporate AG, etc, can all get these corporate bailouts, but when it is the people themselves that need a bailout, it’s mocked and derrided?
Here is a list of corporations who have gotten govenment bailouts. Have you taken issue with a single one of these? Or do you only ever talk about social programs? Because when I poke my head inside conservative spaces all of the complaints go towards services that help people instead of corporate bail outs.
have plenty of free time to chat on the internet all day…
There are just as many posts on the internet from conservatives as there are from leftists.
Meanwhile, conservatives are out in the world trying to hold the damn thing together!
Conservatives are voting to destroy the environment at every chance:
I’m from Alaska. Everyone I know and their sons either kill millions of salmon every year or works for the oil industry.
You’re right that big bro probably shouldn’t be bailing out anyone. Unfortunately, truly free markets are hard to advocate for. The college debt topic is an easy target because we’re tradesmen who didn’t need colleges to begin with and all you silly kids getting degrees for stuff nobody needs is hilarious. Sociology, gender studies, etc etc. News flash, there’s only two genders, I and the trillions of people that came before me didn’t need a degree to figure that one out.
My statement about conservatives being outnumbered on the internet is anecdotal, obviously. From what I see, reddit, lemmy, kbin, twitter, etc… Mostly leftist echo chambers. If I’m wrong, oh well, NBD. Take yourself for example, a lefty hanging out in a conservative magazine. I fully support your decision to engage in debate BTW.
We aren’t voting to destroy the planet, we’re voting to keep our careers, livelihoods, traditions, morals, etc. Praying that our traditions and value will continue to have a positive influence on the world who, used to, look up to this country and our freedoms (yes, I’m a full blown ethnocentric and proud!). We also don’t vote to discriminate, we vote for a fair and equal opportunity across the board. Regardless of your skin color or the awful choices your parents might have made as the leaders of your life.
Nothing we as a species can do will change the natural course of the planet. Fossil fuels have enabled us to save countless lives from unavoidable, natural disasters. Nothing you vote for will detour third world countries from continuing the path of destruction.
all you silly kids getting degrees for stuff nobody needs is hilarious.
I don’t think they’re anywhere near as silly as you think they are. The top most popular degreese are:
Business - I don’t typically think of these as useful degrees, but if the U.S. is going to stay competitive, then there needs to be people to run our industries and companies.
Health professionals - I would hope that you see this as a valuable type of degree
Social sciences and history - (Ex: Anthropology, criminology, economics, geography, history, legal studies, political science, social work, sociology) - All of which are important for a healthy society.
Biological and Biomedical sciences - Same as above
Psychology - This one is definitely oversaturated, but it isn’t a silly degree, and it’s a very high need given how prevelent our country’s mental health problems go
Communication and Journalism - (Ex: Advertising, editing, marketing, media communication, public relations, technical writing, translation, writing) - These all have varying degrees of importance. The journalism related ones are easily the most important here. The advertising/marketing ones I would like to see disappear, but again, they aren’t exactly silly.
Visual and Performing Arts - A healthy society should have a decent bit of this. I’d rather have a cultured society.
Computer and Information Sciences - Our world is built on computers, so another self evidently valuable set
Education - Same as above
And that makes up the majority of fields/degrees that people are getting. They aren’t silly.
Sociology is important to maintain the health of our society. If we don’t study the ways in which our society is failing people, how can we expect things to get better? And as for gender studies, those fill a similar role.
News flash, there’s only two genders
How do you know this?
We aren’t voting to destroy the planet, we’re voting to keep our careers, livelihoods, traditions, morals, etc.
Conservatives absolutely are doing so. Any time there is any legislation put to vote that would reduce our emission it gets shot down by conservatives. If we continue on this course the end result will be our planet becoming uninhabitable. If you work in a field reliant upon the fossil fuels that are destroying our planet, then you should pull yourself up by your bootstraps and find a job that won’t kill the planet. As for the traditions/morals, any tradition that destroys our planet deserves to die, and it isn’t moral to kill the planet.
Nothing we as a species can do will change the natural course of the planet.
We absolutely can. During the pandemic, global emissions droped like a rock. It is absolutely in our capability to build a society in which we maintain our freedoms while getting rid of fossil fuels.
Fossil fuels have enabled us to save countless lives from unavoidable, natural disasters.
And that was cool for the 1900s, but we need to move past it because they are actively killing us, and it’s only getting worse. Currently, 7 million people a year are dying from reckless pollution. The polluters/fossil fuel industry needs to be held accountable for their actions.
Nothing you vote for will detour third world countries from continuing the path of destruction.
We have clean technologies that we can invest in within third world countries. We absolutely can and should do so to avoid this disaster from getting worse and/or unrecoverable.
Ahh yes, all us silly kids getting degress and running the logistics that allow you to sell your salmon in the first place. Y’all conservatives just love being divorced from the real world don’t you? I’m all for good fait conversation, but your opinion stated loudly doesn’t make it fact. It just makes you another blustering 'hard worker" who has no idea how the modern world works since your ignorance is so blissful
This is it, one of the downsides of a decentralized network like the fediverse here is that there is no current way to prevent brigading. It seems like this is mainly just one super MAGA dude ranting and a bunch of brigaders responding. I was going to give it some time and see if it mellowed out as it developed.
I don’t think there is any “brigading” going on here… Just to be clear what brigading actually is:
On reddit, there was a time when there were coordinated and organised efforts to “invade” another communities. For example, there were threads on 4Chan where users linked to subreddits or posts with the aim of having a bunch of users post similar stuff at the same time.
There was also brigading within reddit when one sub would make a post where they coordinate users to post specific comments in specific threads or post similar stuff in a specific subreddit.
As far as I can tell, that’s not what is happening here… There is no coordinated group effort here, it’s just that the vast majority of users on lemmy are not conservatives.
I’m actively removing offending posts and banning trolls. Bear with us, moderation tools are lacking, but I promise we’re working behind the scenes to keep discussion on topic.
Are Lemmy communities not able to moderate themselves?
Moderating can only go so far for brigading. Mass downvotes aren’t something moderators have control over. There’s also the risk of what reddit did where tons of subreddits proactively banned people simply for participating in other subreddits without ever posting in the banned subreddit.
The bottom line is that while reddit is super liberal, lemmy is openly hostile to anyone right of center and I don’t see any realistic solution to this. Welcome to the growing pains of a 15+ year old system going down and starting over from scratch.
I guess on Reddit conservative communities just have the critical mass needed to overcome the downvotes?
I suppose there being enough subreddits to distract people to the communities they’re interested keeps them from trolling/brigading/etc the communities they’re not.
> I guess on Reddit conservative communities just have the critical mass needed to overcome the downvotes?
The /r/conservative subreddit bans anybody who isn’t conservaitve from commenting in the majority of important threads.
Does a ban stop someone from downvoting though? I didn’t think it did, but I’m not 100% sure.
A ban does, but at least with the comments its more of a lock out I think.
The solution to brigading is to move to an instance that doesn’t federate with brigaders.
If you don’t like the instance you’re on, you’re free to go somewhere else.
I mean, completely unfederated instances kinda defeat the point. I get along just fine with real liberals and have plenty of views that bridge both. Limiting participation to a single isolated instance is basically pointless, especially as an actual replacement for reddit. Brigading and hostility to anyone that isn’t part of the circle jerk is just a disadvantage to the solution to admin/CEO-proofing lemmy as a whole.
All instances start fully federated, and slowly get defederated by the communities that choose to do so.
Like it or not brigading is what stops places from being echo chambers.
Either way I’m not looking for isolated echo chambers with virtually no variety of content. Defederated instances defeat the entire point. I can get along just fine with people who I don’t agree with 100%, it would just be nice if others can do the same.
This is literally 100% false. Justify it however you want but your goal is to run anyone out that you disagree with so only your personal views are left. That isn’t stopping it from being an echo chamber.
I think the problem is that much of the “conservative” side is, well, divorced from reality. If you want to find a place in the fediverse that will simply let that slide, it’s not gonna happen. As long as you’ve got Trump leading the polls, his lackeys wasting time in the House on nonsense while ignoring criminals like Santos, other idiots banning books, a SCOTUS that’s the most blatantly corrupt, well, ever, etc. etc. etc. you’re going to have a bad time.
Its already a far left echo chamber.
You’re more than welcome to stay here and make posts that criticize the left. But you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
You can either deal with an instance that leans left, or you can deal with one that doesn’t. It’s up to you.
It’s almost as if, people living off big bro, begging for free money and debt forgiveness have plenty of free time to chat on the internet all day… Meanwhile, conservatives are out in the world trying to hold the damn thing together!
Regarding the matter at hand. I don’t agree that it’s right to ban people who have opposing views. Most of my comment history here is talking to the leftists about that exact thing. Because yes, this place, as new as it is, is already feeling like a lefty’s echo chamber…
sad x indeed
Have you actually asked people how they make a living, or are you just assuming?
Why is it that it is ok for the airline industry, the banks, corporate AG, etc, can all get these corporate bailouts, but when it is the people themselves that need a bailout, it’s mocked and derrided?
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list
Here is a list of corporations who have gotten govenment bailouts. Have you taken issue with a single one of these? Or do you only ever talk about social programs? Because when I poke my head inside conservative spaces all of the complaints go towards services that help people instead of corporate bail outs.
There are just as many posts on the internet from conservatives as there are from leftists.
Conservatives are voting to destroy the environment at every chance:
https://eos.org/articles/environmental-ratings-lowest-ever-for-congressional-republicans
How can they hold the world together when they are voting to kill the environment/world?
I’m from Alaska. Everyone I know and their sons either kill millions of salmon every year or works for the oil industry.
You’re right that big bro probably shouldn’t be bailing out anyone. Unfortunately, truly free markets are hard to advocate for. The college debt topic is an easy target because we’re tradesmen who didn’t need colleges to begin with and all you silly kids getting degrees for stuff nobody needs is hilarious. Sociology, gender studies, etc etc. News flash, there’s only two genders, I and the trillions of people that came before me didn’t need a degree to figure that one out.
My statement about conservatives being outnumbered on the internet is anecdotal, obviously. From what I see, reddit, lemmy, kbin, twitter, etc… Mostly leftist echo chambers. If I’m wrong, oh well, NBD. Take yourself for example, a lefty hanging out in a conservative magazine. I fully support your decision to engage in debate BTW.
We aren’t voting to destroy the planet, we’re voting to keep our careers, livelihoods, traditions, morals, etc. Praying that our traditions and value will continue to have a positive influence on the world who, used to, look up to this country and our freedoms (yes, I’m a full blown ethnocentric and proud!). We also don’t vote to discriminate, we vote for a fair and equal opportunity across the board. Regardless of your skin color or the awful choices your parents might have made as the leaders of your life.
Nothing we as a species can do will change the natural course of the planet. Fossil fuels have enabled us to save countless lives from unavoidable, natural disasters. Nothing you vote for will detour third world countries from continuing the path of destruction.
I don’t think they’re anywhere near as silly as you think they are. The top most popular degreese are:
Business - I don’t typically think of these as useful degrees, but if the U.S. is going to stay competitive, then there needs to be people to run our industries and companies.
Health professionals - I would hope that you see this as a valuable type of degree
Social sciences and history - (Ex: Anthropology, criminology, economics, geography, history, legal studies, political science, social work, sociology) - All of which are important for a healthy society.
Engineering - Again, pretty self evidently valuable
Biological and Biomedical sciences - Same as above
Psychology - This one is definitely oversaturated, but it isn’t a silly degree, and it’s a very high need given how prevelent our country’s mental health problems go
Communication and Journalism - (Ex: Advertising, editing, marketing, media communication, public relations, technical writing, translation, writing) - These all have varying degrees of importance. The journalism related ones are easily the most important here. The advertising/marketing ones I would like to see disappear, but again, they aren’t exactly silly.
Visual and Performing Arts - A healthy society should have a decent bit of this. I’d rather have a cultured society.
Computer and Information Sciences - Our world is built on computers, so another self evidently valuable set
Education - Same as above
And that makes up the majority of fields/degrees that people are getting. They aren’t silly.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/most-popular-college-majors/
Sociology is important to maintain the health of our society. If we don’t study the ways in which our society is failing people, how can we expect things to get better? And as for gender studies, those fill a similar role.
How do you know this?
Conservatives absolutely are doing so. Any time there is any legislation put to vote that would reduce our emission it gets shot down by conservatives. If we continue on this course the end result will be our planet becoming uninhabitable. If you work in a field reliant upon the fossil fuels that are destroying our planet, then you should pull yourself up by your bootstraps and find a job that won’t kill the planet. As for the traditions/morals, any tradition that destroys our planet deserves to die, and it isn’t moral to kill the planet.
We absolutely can. During the pandemic, global emissions droped like a rock. It is absolutely in our capability to build a society in which we maintain our freedoms while getting rid of fossil fuels.
And that was cool for the 1900s, but we need to move past it because they are actively killing us, and it’s only getting worse. Currently, 7 million people a year are dying from reckless pollution. The polluters/fossil fuel industry needs to be held accountable for their actions.
https://ourworldindata.org/data-review-air-pollution-deaths
We have clean technologies that we can invest in within third world countries. We absolutely can and should do so to avoid this disaster from getting worse and/or unrecoverable.
Ahh yes, all us silly kids getting degress and running the logistics that allow you to sell your salmon in the first place. Y’all conservatives just love being divorced from the real world don’t you? I’m all for good fait conversation, but your opinion stated loudly doesn’t make it fact. It just makes you another blustering 'hard worker" who has no idea how the modern world works since your ignorance is so blissful