“I can tell you that the people that are doing it aren’t the people who are coming here because they’re looking for a sandwich because they’re hungry,” said Ravi Ramberran, “It’s the people who are not afraid of consequences period.”
In the wake of the increase in dine and dashers, Ramberran said his restaurant has ramped up how they deal with it.
“We blast them on Facebook, we hold them, we make them wait for the cops…We do what’s in our power to do.”
I am more than willing to pay when I order but I will not be tipping then.
You can always tip after. Tips are between you and the server anyway. The business is not part of that transaction.
Not true in many places. Lots of restaurants pool all the tips, then distribute them to all staff, sometimes even owners and managers.
Then don’t go out to restaurants. Don’t tip on bad service, but if you had good service, you not tipping is just you punishing the server for doing their job. They pay out to the kitchen and bar on every table, regardless if you tip, so when you don’t tip, your server has to pay out of pocket to serve you. Don’t care? Why don’t you tell that server working 2 jobs to “just quit”. You don’t need to go out to eat. They do need to pay their bills. Stop patronizing an industry that exploits its workers, and then make it the worker’s problems.
This is the problem.
Framing this as the consumer doing something wrong and withholding wages from the servers is total bullshit.
The real fault is the industry underpaying their staff and leaving it up to the consumers to subsidize a significant portion of their income.
I’m not sure why people say it is on the industry. It’s clearly driven by customer preferences. Try being a server some time and reject any tips that come your way. The customers will not be too thrilled.
In fact, the restaurant business would be much better served by charging a higher price, even if that also means paying the workers more, as they can skim more profit off the top. They have no legal entitlement to tip money. That is a huge opportunity loss.
Remember, restaurants – at least the kind where you pay after the event – aren’t really in the business of food. They are in the experience business. They provide an experience that allows you to feel “like a king” for an hour or two, and throwing some coins at the “poor servants” to show how “rich and powerful” you are is part of that experience.
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting tips should be banned. It’s just that tips shouldn’t be expected from each customer. Someone working at any given fast food restaurant (not to mention other low level service jobs) is working just as hard as a server at a sit down restaurant for the same pay. Why should I be expected to tip one and not the other? Also, why is 15-20% considered a proper tip? 10% shouldn’t be treated like it’s an insult.
If you want get into the long history, alcohol service is unique in that it places liability on the server rather than the business. This means that they are legally their own independent agent and as such are free to charge their own rates. The tip separates what was sold by the restaurant and what was sold by the server. You will notice that any old laws on the books about tipping refer specifically to alcohol.
This is why it has been traditionally customary to tip in establishments that sell alcohol, but not places that just sell hamburgers. But these days I’m pretty sure everyone will ask you for a tip and a lot of those old laws have been stricken from the books. It is of little applicability these days. Now, it’s mostly just because people enjoy tipping.
Because that is what the market will bear.
So what if it is an insult? I think most everyone feels a little insulted when someone says “no” to their offer. But are you going to accept every telemarking scam and vacuum salesman just because you are afraid you are going to hurt their feelings?
Lots of people get pleasure from tipping. And if a server can provide that service to them, great. If that is not you, just don’t pay for the service. You can’t win every customer, as they say.
The industry decides that profits come before everything else. Large restaurant corporations could easily charge the same amount, pay workers more (with the add on effect of customers saving money by not having to tip), and take a hit to profits. Unfortunately, our legal system doesn’t punish businesses for not paying workers a livable wage or for using tips to deceptively price goods to overcharge consumers. Instead, it’s illegal to not abide by fiduciary duty in the pursuit of infinite profits. Due to this, I can’t see the tipping culture going away anytime soon. It isn’t the consumers who are driving this, it’s the restaurant industry.
Exactly. So why do you think they are happy to let their margins go out the door?
A business is always incentivized to get paid as much as possible. Tips, however, are not paid to the business. They are paid directly to the workers. This means an, often substantial, loss in potential revenue for the business and thus is a huge loss in opportunity for the business.
Again, what business willingly turns revenue away? The answer is no business willingly turns revenue away. Where did you even get the idea otherwise?
Businesses prefer tipping because they don’t need to provide benefits or scheduling for their employees. When they are slow, they aren’t paying for all the staff hanging around. When it is busy, they still aren’t paying their staff, but they have even more because people want to work for tips when it is busy. And when their employees act up, the customers are the ones who deal with it.
Tips let businesses staff for peanuts while punishing their employees with terrible schedules so they quit instead of being fired and getting unemployment.
Businesses love tipping culture.
I agree 100% especially given the behaviors that our current economic system incentivizes. I was simply responding to what you said about consumers preferences driving tipping culture instead of the industry.
Although consumers in North America feel comfortable and good about tipping, this tradition primarily stems from the push to increase profits by underpaying workers and offsetting their deserved pay with the “merit” based tipping system. It’s a clever trick that feeds into the idea that “the harder your work, the more you get paid”.
I don’t think this system will change unless profit is removed as the main factor in driving a business. Not to mention our legal system discourages and even prosecutes those who attempt to undermine the growth of a company against shareholder interests.
The only places this works is in privately owned businesses where the people who run it have the authority to prioritize paying employees over profits. However, this opens the door for businesses to reduce prices by cutting wages which undercuts the private business used in this example and could lead them to go out of business.
This example is basically to state that in order to eliminate the tipping culture and give workers the pay they deserve, the entire industry needs to change. One private company cannot be solely responsible for this change since another can come in and eliminate them. Now do I think this will happen? NO!
Yes, that’s right. That’s the topic at hand.
The only thing that will eliminate it is customers losing their desire to tip. They are under no obligation to. They do so because they want to! They could literally end it right now. But why should they? They clearly derive enjoyment from it, as found out in that tip rejection experiment.
Like you said, we 100% agree that the business would be better off charging more for the service (more revenue) instead of seeing the transaction split between the business and the workers (less revenue). There is no question that restaurant businesses, if it were up to them, would prefer to charge more for the plate over having tips. That gives them greater cashflow to work with and increased profitability on the margins.
But you can’t get blood from a stone. If the customer wants to split the transaction between the business and the workers, there isn’t much a business can do beyond saying “no soup for you” – but that’s even less profitable than accepting a split transaction. Restaurants are forced to begrudgingly accept (if they want to be profitable).
I see what you mean. It is true that if the restaurant wage problem was solved tipping wouldn’t go away overnight, especially since many consumers in North America are used to the idea of tipping. However, I do believe it would slowly become less common as it is in other countries.
In places where tipping is less common, customers view the prices as fully baked in. What they pay includes the price of the food and providing enough so their workers can live. There’s no guilt over not tipping. Some people may if they like the service, but most won’t. Additionally, the consumer is able to make a more informed choice since they are able to see the actual cost of their meal. They also don’t have to choose having the soup vs. tipping someone enough to live.
I think my main point is that random patrons shouldn’t be able to determine whether someone can pay rent after working 12 hour shifts for a month. Letting the consumer split the cost of a transaction between the business and the worker is always a losing situation for the worker. The cost of the food is fixed, the business will always make X amount of dollars per transaction. Meanwhile, tipping is variable so the worker is never guaranteed a fair sum.
If workers were paid properly then tipping would be viewed as an actual reward for doing a good job instead of a restaurant worker subsidy program as it currently stands. As I see it, the whole industry needs to change with actual laws backing up it up or else a few bad actors can ruin everything in the name of wanting to be profitable.
None of what you said justifies paying these employees less because consumers are expected to give them money above and beyond the products/services that were purchased.
Wait, really? if I don’t tip on a meal the server has to then take money from their wages for the night and give it to the kitchen and bar? that doesn’t seem right to me.
Absolutely not. Tips are optional.