You’re still doing two clicks to downvote someone, instead of just one. And in the meantime there’s always some room to think “why am I downvoting this again?”

And perhaps I’m judging other users too much based on my own usage of the downvote button-

I tend to believe that other people are like this too, but perhaps I’m wrong, dunno.

We’ve reached the point I’ve been trying to get to, thank you.
We are not talking about people who think about doing these things, we’re talking about people who do it just to be an ass. No other reason needed.
The ones who think or somehow rationalize their votes are people who already moved on or blocked what they didn’t want to see, those are not part of this problem. Do you really believe a dedicated group or person who just keeps on creating instances, scripts and bots to troll a comm/user is someone who is going to care about why?

The problem with this approach is that chronological sorting leads to a lot of trash, as people know that their shitpost will be still highly visible for the others. Kind of like 4chan.

So the same problem if we browse Lemmy in chronological order? I mean… there’s a reason we have multiple kinds of sorting and the forums also have their own way of sorting, also why Lemmy and other platforms have moderation, to keep the shit out and enforce the rules (enforcing quality would also be cool but they say it’s too subjective to be doable).
That’s also why categories inside a forum are used, you split the shitpost from the actual content and if you want shitpost you go to that part of the forums, if you want nsfw you go to that category, if someone wants nsfl they can go fuck themselves to that category, and so on; it’s would not be like Lemmy where you either see everything you haven’t blocked or only your subscriptions.

Sellers being also part of the problem is a fair point. But it isn’t just about Lemmy being Lemmy; it’s that unless a community disallows sellers, amateurs eventually leave.

I usually browse top 12 hours or scaled and I haven’t seen an actual amateur post in a long time, so I think you must be right.

This would probably need a different approach, like different comms for sellers vs. amateurs. Or, if the tag system were to be implemented, forcing people to tag their content accordingly.

I think the sellers would get upset of not being able to mix their spam outside their comms, but I agree.
Altough I don’t have hopes for a tag system for a while, being careful of the tags not overlapping accross instances sounds like a pain.

About sexuality: the reason why I think that tags would’ve worked is that, once legitimate-but-shortsighted users stop downvoting things based on their sexuality, the trolls stick out like a sore thumb. And then you can simply kick the trolls out.

At this point, I think everyone has blocked whatever they don’t like (based on sexuality), so if that hasn’t worked enough to stop the massive downvotes I doubt a tag system would work for that (since they don’t only come from one instance and sometimes they create instances for that purpose).

Disagree, the downvoters would just pick a default reason and move on… maybe even turning one of the reasons into a troll motive.
Remember we’re talking about people who only care enough to go out of their way to mass downvote or even have scripts to do it for them; not normal users who up/down vote and move on (which weren’t the problem back then, as far as we were told).
Forcing a reason maybe would stop people who actually cared enough, for the rest it would just be a nuisance so they’d pick whatever (or the meanest option).

Honestly… after reading another guy’s comment, I am more inclined to just say fuck it and say we return to the forums, no upvotes or downvotes, things neatly categorized into their place (specially so sensible things can be hidden but still available) and if someone wants to interact they’d have to comment.

After commenting for a while in this thread… I think I agree, we need to go back to the forums and actually engage as users, it’s too easy to upvote/downvote and move on, that would only mean the post was actually useless or forgettable and makes posting propaganda extremely easy since nobody calls you out on it.
This old doomer agrees with you.

Yes and no, I agree we need a better alternative to only downvotes but adding a reason to be able to downvote will only make the problem worse.
They are removed to protect the sensibilities of the users, so instead of seeing ambiguous 100 downvotes, now you’ll have 70 downvotes with messages that might go from no or ew to horrible insults I’m not going to type here, if it was hurtful or discouraging before, it would get worse.

Sadly I don’t have the creativity to come up with a better way, the only alternative being to move to a forum where they can control as they please and categorise everything until the fediverse (or Lemmy at least) has the tools to give them their safe space.

The sellers were also a big part of the problem, people were downvoting and reporting them constantly, which was turning them away… Which… I mean it’s fucking Lemmy, such response against sellers should have been expected.
And they are still a problem, you can see them being very aggressive with their multiple posts (I call that spamming).

I think the other part of the problem is that a lot of people came expecting some sort of safe space/echo chamber where they could control everything from their instance, but the fediverse is way too open and diverse to achieve that (specially Lemmy with at least 3 big troll instances).

As a huge doomer, I don’t think tags would have worked because we are talking about people who went out of their way to troll that content, not normal users who might downvote or not and then block the community or user. I don’t know if removing the downvotes actually discouraged those trolls or if they are still going at it, but I am sure it didn’t help to increase the quality of the content.

Reposting is a huge problem on the NSFW instance, you can see the same picture/video on multiple communities with the same title or a small variation, sometimes it doesn’t even fit the community, but those are the sellers that they were trying to protect… Along with their cringe commenting bots.

They said it was discouraging men and lgbt+ users since they were constantly getting downvoted.
Also the sellers were getting constantly downvoted… If I had to guess, I’d say that was actually the reason, but that’s mere speculation.

I agree it doesn’t make sense, the fediverse is a public space but some people act like if it was a private forum or a closed space.

Yep, trying to single out the USA only is extremely short sighted, just in the last years my country began to destroy a protected jungle, a mangrove swamp and decided to just let the vaquita marina die.
It isn’t just america bad, this is how humanity works and then us, who are too afraid to try to do something about it and only complain to the void.

That was the beauty of the original memes and rage comics, something almost anyone could do and almost everyone knew what the template meant, no need to add a wall of text just to make it relatable or understandable

/old man rant

That’s what I said in my original and second comment.

I really struggle to find good accounts to follow on bluesky

I just follow a couple, so far I haven’t found accounts worth the follow, but just browsing the feed usually gives me enough content for a moment (I don’t browse it for hours).

most of the french accounts/content are inactive for months

There’s a Mastodon instance for my country (México)… but nobody fucking posts anything, a friend of mine tried it but all her posts were kind of normie content so she was ignored… hard, so she just deleted her account.
Also trying to check the content on others servers is cumbersome and a pain.

I even have a better content/experience on mastodon since they federated w/ threads and flipboard

No comment, I blocked threads and I don’t really use flipboard.

But beyond mastodon, it’s really sad that they leave the fediverse for now, hope they’ll comeback one day or another (on mastodon or any other plateform)

I don’t think the Fediverse is ready for the normal public yet, it requieres too much effort (yes, dedicating time to read every little detail to pick a server is annoying) only to find out there is no content for them, the UI is very not user friendly (generally speaking), that maybe they landed on an instance that doesn’t allow what they want or it’s just a propaganda server.
As I said about SimpleX… it needs to pretty-up if the plan is to welcome normal people, otherwise it’s just us.

Better content.
Mastodon is full of keyboard activism and news. Finding content for/from normies is not that easy and is usually ignored (0 retoots or so).
Bluesky has normie content along news and is still pretty left-leaning, a couple of artists/creators have an account there.
Finding porn/hentai is also easier than in mastodon (and you don’t have to check every detail of the servers to know if it’s allowed).

Tl;dr: Bluesky requires no mental effort to create an account and has normie content.

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