didn’t understand why he was told the other countries pay the tariffs
that’s easy: you were willing to vote for a guy who lied over 30 thousand times in his first term so he realized you’re a fucking idiot and he could say anything without you thinking even half a second about it.
WHAT’S THE POINT OF EXPORTING SHIT YOU IDIOT WHY WOULD A COUNTRY DO IT IF THEY HAD TO PAY FOR IT
I would like to ask them what happens when taffis are increased to 100%? Does that mean producers are giving stuff for free?
And then what happen when the tarris are at 200%? Do they have to send stuff for free and pay on top of that?
One more thing - don’t tell them they are wrong. Tell them they were lied to
Some people genuinely are fucking dumber than a rock
“Doing your own research” means watching one or two YouTube videos or Facebook posts as far as these people are concerned. No thought for themselves, just parrot what you hear.
Real answer is in the last line there. If 60% of people we’re capable of doing their own research (and arriving at the correct answer) then we wouldn’t have anti-vaxers, flat-earthers and non-billionaire/non-bigot/non-christian nationalist republicans.
The problem lies where they “find” their “research” when they see the answer they want to see on social media rather than an actual study or any factual references.
Doing your own research or, you know, trust the experts? There’s no way I will get deep enough into virology to get a proper grasp if I need a vaccination. But I for sure won’t trust a random space Karen or brainworm Jimmy.
“He was told the other countries pay the tariffs”, by a bunch of liars and he believed the liars.
The real hard part is it’s a partial truth.
The sellers do pay the tariffs, they just don’t talk about what that does to the prices.
The other problem is it cuts both ways, and a number of the idiots will say as long as you’re hurting them too, fine.
And then we have retaliatory tariffs, which also cut both ways.
IMHO, our biggest issue is we’ve been using cheap Chinese products and labor as a crutch instead of increasing wages. They’ve been able to cut down wages because Amazon, Temu and Shein have been providing products WAY WAY under marketable US made prices.
I wrote a comment explaining Tariffs on a Fox News YouTube video a few weeks back, and the entire reply chain was people arguing with eachother about how tariffs work because “Trump said it’s a tax on other countries, so that’s how they work”
It’s the problem that reality is more complicated than the simplified version trump gives his followers.
If you don’t know how something works and someone very confidently tells you how it works and it sorta maps onto familiar concepts, boy is that catnip.
Maybe all the countries are just sitting around like people and Canada is like a guy buying our stuff and we are just making that guy pay a tax. I’m a guy, I pay taxes, sucks to be that guy but probably rules to be the guy getting the tax revenue, and now trump made that us, awesome!!!
Transmitting this wrong idea is fast because it maps onto their lived experiences. It’s easy for them to conceptualize Canada as a single monolithic entity that is buying shit and having to pay a tax. So in one stroke they get a double dopamine hit.
- I’m not dumb, I get how this all works, and it was pretty easy!
- we get to collect these taxes instead of having to pay them, awesome!!!
So here you come to explain, “that’s not how any of this works” Canada isn’t one entity, it’s many. Sure the tariff is on their stuff, but it’s paid by the person buying it, us. And you can go on about all the ways they are wrong but you are threatening the fact that they are not dumb and they already understand this and their understanding means they are winning. So you want them to admit they are dumb and getting fucked and that’s a hard sale.
This is the real danger of hypernormalization, it allows people like trump to replace the complexity of reality with a fake but simpler version. And it’s so dangerous because the people that buy in to that fake but simpler version have this weird insane incentive to defend it.
You’re doing god’s work in the hellish trenches
That’s front line in “Trench Crusade” level of trenches.
I recently learned that almost 1 in 5 Americans are illiterate.
How many Americans do you think are reasonably well educated, so that they would understand somewhat complex issues like tariffs? Or could seek out information if they didn’t understand?
“Are you saying 1 fouth of Americans are removed?” “Yeah at least 1 fourth.”
Im still surprised by that , the quality of education in my country is low but holly fuck im stunned by the lack of education in the states
It is highly regional, too.
Despite the existence of the Department of Education (which Trump is trying to dismantle), there is no national standard for education in the US. In general, each state is free to decide upon its own policies and standards.
Some states, such as those in the northeast, have very high-performing school systems. So when that “1 in 5 are illiterate” statistic is mentioned (I actually have not verified that number, just quoting the prior claim as an example), it would be caused by low-performing states where the situation is much more dire dragging down the national average.
Here’s a general look at quality of education in the US by state, though recommend folks look up their own numbers because I haven’t validated the numbers pulled in the article I grabbed this from.
It’s not a perfect divide between red states and blue states (Florida appears good, California less so, as an example), but in general we see the lower performing states located mainly in the South where the Republicans have more support. Basically, a less educated populace is easier to manipulate.
I was reading into this recently and the reason Florida is so high on these lists is because post-secondary education is very cheap. Their K-12 education is on the garbage end of the spectrum.
For extra fun, look into where school districts allocate their funding and how it relates to their rankings. Some of the worst performing public schools spend a lot more on athletics than they spend on anything else. It’s like they want to be professional athlete mills instead of functioning adult mills.
It’s by design.
The whole thing was very purposefully talked about using the word “tariff” and never ever its synonym “import tax” exactly so that the traditional Fascist technique of redefining the meaning of words could be easily used: if all the Fascists’ speech had been about “import taxes” they would not have been able to leverage most people’s ignorance anywhere near this level because the very words “import” and “tax” were already reasonably well understood by most - unlike “tariff” - so the opinion makers would not have been able to miseducate their targets anywhere as easily.
I’m not saying that the people who fell for this are to be excused - if there is something important enough for you to put the effort into educating yourself, it’s Politics - I’m saying it’s understandable how so many were so easy to swindle.
Well they are a tax that other countries will pay so they are half right. But the point is the other countries will place tariffs on our stuff. Trade wars don’t usually end well, just fucking over consumers.
No they are a tax that importers pay. Not exporters or their government.
No.
A tariff on foreign products entering the US is paid by American consumers.
It’s to discourage Americans from buying foreign products and to pursue cheaper local options instead.
Except America hardly manufactures anything anymore.
Man, this isn’t even “doing your research” it’s just knowing what very basic words mean.
I bet a coworker $20 that “tariff” and “tax” were synonyms. Motherfucker refused to pay up, calling merriam-webster.com, thesauraus.com, wikipedia etc. “fake news”.
A tariff is a tax or custom duty on an imported good.
Tariffs can lead to a reduction and higher prices on foreign imported goods.[1] Like the corporate income tax, domestic consumers ultimately pay the tax in higher prices.Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
Your mistake was referencing a woketionary.
I would’ve made you pay him. Every tariff is a tax but not every tax is a tariff. Of course your actual point still stands.
That’s not what a synonym is.
My point exactly. The bet was about whether “tariff” and “tax” are synonymous. They aren’t synonymous if they describe different things, even if one of those things is a subset of the other. (This is complicated a bit by the fact that synonymity is context-dependent so in some contexts they can be synonymous. I’m assuming a general context.)
To give a different example, every iPhone is a smartphone but not every smartphone is an iPhone. The two terms aren’t synonymous except in specific contexts like when discussing the inventory of an Apple store.
In a general context, I would argue that the bet is lost – tariffs are taxes but taxes encompass more than just tariffs. The definition of synonymity is not fulfilled.
The actual point of the bet, namely to illustrate that tariffs are paid by people in the country that raised them (because they are taxes on imported goods and services), remains valid.
It’s anti-intellectualism.
You don’t need to understand any of it, you can just ask people who spend their lives researching this stuff.
Of course the employee is wrong, but the OOP isn’t tackling the argument in a really productive way. There’s an opportunity to meet the employee where they are.
People caught in the right wing noise machine always seem to understand that businesses pass on business taxes to the consumer. So, if other countries were paying the tariffs, why wouldn’t they pass those costs on?
Did you read the post? It sounds like they explained it thoroughly to them prior to the tariffs going into effect and it went in one ear and out the other.
I read the post. I understood the post. Did you understand what I said?
You can be perfectly correct, or you can reach people who reject reality. You gotta decide on your goals, and understand that peacocking on the Internet isn’t useful.
You gotta decide on your goals, and understand that peacocking on the Internet isn’t useful.
Is that what I did?
You implied that they didn’t read the short post, when they clearly did.
Yeah, whenever people say “the other country pays” (well, before this election cycle) what they meant was that the higher price would encourage shoppers to buy domestic this the other country “pays” because they get less revenue. Prices would go up either way though because of the domestic goods were cheaper they would’ve already been the first pick. The thing about taxes is that it doesn’t really matter if it’s placed on the supply or demand side, the end effect is the same. Sure, it will feel different and there might be different short term effects, but it’s the same regardless. The price is higher and government gets a cut.
So I don’t really understand why people believe that even if the foreign country/company was paying the tariff why people would think prices stay the same. As if other countries are just going to get a 25% fee and not increase prices by ~25% to cover that.
The most charitable argument for Trump would be that foreign businesses reduce their prices such that the price paid by their US customers is the same as before the tariffs to remain competitive in the US market, but I think most MAGAs literally just never thought about it.
I get what you’re saying but you’re reinforcing the belief that other countries are paying the tariffs. They’re not paying anything. A tariff is a direct tax on anyone importing products into the country.
I’m not reinforcing anything. I’m saying bypass that part entirely, and use the conservative talking points against taxes to discuss this. That the end consumer is ultimately the one that pays, no matter what.
Isn’t this the same debate as to how one country can (or cannot) force another country to pay for a random construction project that isn’t in anyones interest (that wall)?
It’s not like the concept is beyond (basically, 99.9+%) anyones cognitive abilities. It’s just how ads (the science behind it is plentiful, it’s a giant business sector) work on human brains.
Or, we can hold the fucking media accountable for telling blatant lies about the impacts of tariffs.
Fox News got around that by claiming they’re entertainment, not news.
Per their own arguments in court, no reasonable person would consider Fox News to be factual.
Ignorance is not an excuse. Fire all MAGAs for taxifs.
